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Antique firearms proposal

Discussion in 'Legal' started by LAR-15, Oct 17, 2006.

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  1. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    I have been working with my senator's office on this and they have no problems with my idea (removing antiques completely from NFA purview) I have been working on this for about a year:

    A BILL
    To make technical and conforming changes to the definition of ‘antique firearm’ in Federal law and for other purposes.

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,


    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
    This Act may be cited as the `Section 5845 Act'.


    SEC. 2. FINDINGS

    (1) The definition of ‘antique firearm’ is not the same in Federal criminal law as it is in Federal tax law.

    (2) In 1954 Congress expressly made clear in Public Law 83-591 that ‘...blunderbusses, muzzle-loading shotguns, and other ancient or antique guns..’ should not be made subject to the National Firearms Act but some still are.

    (3) In 1999 Congress exempted all muzzle loading black powder firearms from the Gun Control Act but not from the National Firearms Act.

    (4) Many antique rifles were manufactured with barrel lengths of fifteen inches or greater.



    SEC. 3. STANDARDIZING AMENDMENT

    Section 5845(g) of Chapter 53 Title 26 United States Code is rewritten to read:

    ‘The term “antique firearm” has the same meaning as found in Section 921(a)(16) of Chapter 44 Title 18 United States Code and includes any unserviceable antique .”


    SEC. 4. COMPANION AMENDMENT

    Section 5845 (a) of Chapter 53 Title 26 United States Code is amended by:

    Striking ’16’ wherever it appears and replacing it with ’15
     
  2. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    What is the problem this is intended to solve?
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Muzzleloading machine guns, as well as assault muskets, could be bought and sold without Federal restriction, perhaps?
     
  4. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Removing all firearms made in or before 1898 from the NFA and removing primer ignintioned muzzle loaders from the NFA.

    That's all.
     
  5. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    Which firearms made in or before 1898 are subject to the NFA?
     
  6. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Any that fit the NFA defintions of firearm.

    Certain lever action rifles with barrels of 15 and 14 inches unless the BATFE has administratively removed them.

    Shotguns with barrels under 18 inches.

    Small concealable gadget guns, ect.

    They are not subject to the GCA though.
     
  7. Liberal Gun Nut

    Liberal Gun Nut Member

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    There must be a few pre-1898 MGs too, right?
     
  8. bamawrx

    bamawrx Member

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    Its not easy to get new laws passed, so I think it would be the best to join this effort with other existing similar bills. The make suppressors title I transfer, GI bring back amnesty, national reciprocity, etc.. are all good ideas that could be put together to get more traction.

    Just a thought.
     
  9. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Since my proposal is fairly simple and short I am trying to have it added to another bill rather than be stand alone.

    If Senator so and so is introducing a bill on subject X, why can you not tack on my proposal at the end of the bill? And I mean a bill about to be introduced and has a chance of passing (it would probably be a non gun related bill but with my amendment tucked inside from introduction.)


    It would never pass stand alone with all the anti gun senators currently.

    I have been told that.
     
  10. elric

    elric Member

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    Colt 1895 "Potato Diggers"
    Early Maxims

    Some others, I'm sure
     
  11. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    See also if you can guess what the so-called 'companion amendment' does.

    :confused:
     
  12. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    BTW, LAR, sounds like a good idea.
     
  13. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    BTW,

    I am working with Senator Dole's (R-NC) office on this.
     
  14. Liberal Gun Nut

    Liberal Gun Nut Member

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    Good work, LAR-15. I would love to see a few chips knocked into the NFA. We would all love to see some chipping into 922o, of course, and we'll get there in an incremental way.

    As for pre-1898 MGs, I found this link:

    http://www.spanamwar.com/Coltmachinegun.htm

    There must be handful of these still around, perhaps even in operable condition, but ammo is probably hard to find and they are museum pieces, not "shooters".
     
  15. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    nevermind
     
  16. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    The NFA hasn't been changed for the better since 1960.

    And it's still a mystery why some firearms made in or before 1898 were never exmpted from the NFA but exempted from the GCA. :confused:

    :(
     
  17. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    changes the definition of sbr from 16" to 15".

    a 6.25% improvement.
     
  18. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    my guess is that 1898 was not all that long ago when the NFA was passed.
     
  19. Liberal Gun Nut

    Liberal Gun Nut Member

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    It doesn't make logical sense now, but when the NFA was passed in 1934 (?), there must have been plenty of pre-1898 guns in routine use, and they probably didn't seem so antiquated as they do now. By the time the GCA passed those guns were truly antiques, mostly of collector interest, and not in any kind of use.

    (Yes I'm sure there's someone out there who still hunts with a pre-1898 Mauser or who carries a pre-1898 revolver of some kind, but this is very very rare these days.)
     
  20. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Folks,

    The NFA was completely rewritten in 1968 and that where antique firearms were defined and exempted per Congress's intent in 1954 to exempt antiques.

    ALL firearms made in or before 1898 were exempt from the GCA but not the NFA. In 1968 (not 1934).
     
  21. cpileri

    cpileri Member

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    hmmm....GREAT IDEA!!!!

    any way you could throw the verbage: "or faithful replicas thereof" to the firearms so that modern-made authentic replicas of pre-1899 antiques are also exempt?

    any language that looks innocuous but can expand the relaxation of the ammendment you are proposing would be for the better!

    too bad we can't tag on a small, hidden in the morass, line or two to to ammend NFA34 to define firearms strictly as that which launches a projectile and exempts any accessories of same- thus exempting suppressors from the NFA!

    May as well use their tactics against them for a change!

    C-
     
  22. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Another nice thing would be a rolling date, e.g. mfg. 75 or more years before the current date.

    Those old Damascus shotguns really don't need to be subject to the NFA or the GCA, for example.
     
  23. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    My proposal merely makes the defintion of antique firearm found in the GCA the same as the one in the NFA.

    :)
     
  24. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    A rolling date (50 yrs) is already in effect with curio and relics.
     
  25. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    True re C&R.

    I'd like to see a rolling date for "non-firearms."

    A pre-1898 rifle, even if it's essentially identical to a modern one (Mauser, Marlin or Winchester lever action, etc.) is not a firearm, legally. When the GCA was passed, that meant "70 years old." Or was that added to the law later?
     
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