Any PTR-91 owners here?

[MCMXIautomatic]

Hey everyone, just wanted to know what you think overall about the PTR-91.

I've been thinking about possibly getting one some time, just because I feel like I could use a good .308 battle rifle. I'm specifically looking at either the PTR-91 GI or the GI R models, though I may lean a little more toward the latter since I could easily mount an Eotech or other optic to it.

http://www.ptr91.com/products/PTR G.I.?id=23

http://ptr91.com/products/PTR G.I. R?id=51

What I find attractive about these rifles, aside from the history, is that the design is so solid and proven. It has almost an AK level of simplicity, and is about as easy to field strip. Also, good surplus mags are still plentiful and CHEAP. I do realize also that they are a bit heavy and perhaps a little cumbersome, and that they will ruin brass without the use of a port buffer, but I don't see these as serious issues for me.

I have also looked at the AR-10 some, but the problem I have with them is that they are largely proprietary in design, and many parts and mags are not interchangeable between rifles from different manufacturers. I see this as being a potential problem if I should ever need replacement parts. Also, the AR-10 is not as well-established and proven as the G3/CETME design.

What do you guys think of the PTR's accuracy? Sights? What has your general experience been like with them? Is it worth it to get one, or do you think the AR-10 still has more going for it? Tell me what you think, I'd really like to hear some first-hand opinions.

 

[ttarp]

I've never fired(or even handled for that matter) an AR10, but I assume it has most of the benefits of ergo's, accuracy, easier scope mounting(thats somewhat negated if you pick the 91R model), and to a lesser degree, weight of the AR15. So I have a hard time recommending a PTR91 against an AR10 based on that.

However, the PTR is not a bad rifle, it is like you say heavy, accuracy is on par with your average M1A, the sights are a pain to zero, but once zeroed are easier and more accurate to use than M1A sights, and the rifles while probably the filthiest design out there, requires very little cleaning or maintenance to keep running. I let my PTR go without cleaning and dry as a bone for somewhere around 1000 rounds without any sort of malfunction before my burning conscience made me clean it.

 

[mshootnit]

I just shot mine today. They are usually pretty accurate rifles. I would say you can take good factory ammo, a load it likes, and very consistently hit an orange or baseball sized target at 200 yds.
I have owned 4 of these IIRC. The first one and the real keeper (I didn't) was my first one , a ptr91fr. That barrel needed no break in at all.
I think there is some variance in the finished rifles. I have had one or two that failed to eject consistently when New.
PTR says that is normal break in. However my first PTR was perfect out of the box and needed no break in.
PTR said that I could send it back and they would look at it, but that they would charge me. I said no thanks.
My current functions fine, when clean, with full power commercial loads. Will FTE with milsurp still.
If you want an accurate rifle, and are willing to clean and break in for 500 rounds they might be for you.
Also they are at least as heavy as many an AR10, andcthey are DIRTY. You don't even know.
Some of the PTR kick like a dirty mule, some don't. I think it has to do with whether the buffer they put in is new or used milsurp. I have had different new PTR kick very hard, and not so much. I bought and installed the heavy buffer on one, but my current one doesn't need it, even though it is the lighter GI version. has to be the buffer I think.
I think a wise man would save up and get a real HK.
When I compare to my SW M&P 10, I think I would favor the M&P10 if I had to. Lighter, as accurate, less dirty. But it is possible the PTR and an extra set of rollers might be more durable long term (?)
Mag dumps with a PTR are very fast.

 

[Havok7416]

I have a PTR-91 Classic (wood furniture). I love mine and don't get a chance to shoot nearly as often as I'd like. I will say the downside for me is that it chews up brass really bad, but it's accurate and fun to shoot overall. The sights are battle rifle good, but I don't think you are going to win any precision competitions with them. I probably would buy another PTR over an AR-10, but that's just me. I don't have any time to post pics right now but I should be able to get around to it.

 

[czhen]

I do like mine alot, acurrate enough for a battle rifle, having a FAL, M14 make it a good contender when I have to pick one to go the range. AR 10 in progress for now.
CZHeb

 

[Prijador]

I have the 7.62x39 version, the PTR-32.
I love the HK sights. With the ammo I use, it doesn't seem to be noticeably dirtier than an AR overall. The fouling on mine is just really concentrated in the chamber, with very little anywhere else.

I've never had a problem, but a friend was shooting it and really rode the recoil, resulting in a couple of stoppages. I've never had that problem.

RTGparts has genuine HK parts for decent prices - look at getting a locking piece.
HK parts may be very easy to swap out, and will likely be around forever, but they can get pricey.

I'm not sure I would discount an AR-10 from a reputable manufacturer (I'd say parts from S&W, for example, will likely be around forever too, but...) I'd guess parts will be available enough.
My personal favorite in 7.62x51 is still the FAL.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

I have a PTR and it's great, not quite as accurate as my M1a but battle accurate. I prefer it to most base level AR-10s, but that said I shoot my AR-15s far more. I will say that real H&Ks are more valuable but of the half dozen or so HKs I have shot they're not built any better.

 

[mshootnit]

I have a PTR and it's great, not quite as accurate as my M1a but battle accurate. I prefer it to most base level AR-10s, but that said I shoot my AR-15s far more. I will say that real H&Ks are more valuable but of the half dozen or so HKs I have shot they're not built any better.

Yes they are.
I have owned four PTR, and ordered genuine HK parts to replace parts in the PTR and without exception the HK german part is of higher quality. From extractors, housings, furniture etc. the german stuff is all higher quality. One example a German selector has a captive ball bearing and spring while the PTR copy is just a piece of stamped metal.
But that being said, if you have a PTR that will cycle, you have a rifle which is at least as accurate, and probably more accurate than the HK.

 

[ratcobob]

I love mine. Besides being a great and reliable shooter, I think its flexibility is a huge plus. With a wide variety of stocks, forends, optics mounts, and mags available which can be very quickly and easily changed, it can be like having several guns in one.
As with any of the guns he does work on, a trigger job by Bill Springfield - Home is one of the best investments you can make.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

How much are the PTRs running these days?

 

[Rockrivr1]

How much are the PTRs running these days?

I picked mine up for a little under $900 a few years back. It's a good shooter, but as someone mentioned a few posts back they can be picky with ammo. After testing I found several brands mine likes. Accuracy is decent but it chews up brass bad so if you like to reload, don't use your good brass through it. I also have a M1A and a LAR8 (AR10 version from RRA) and they are much better rifles, though I do enjoy shooting the PTR from time to time. I have a HK elevated scope mount and scope on mine that also needs an elevated cheek rest, that I've added to my stock.

 

[Llama Bob]

AR10s (really, KAC/DPMS-pattern) haven't for practical purposes been "proprietary" in design for a long time now. You can easily buy parts and throw them together just like an AR15 and expect it to work. And they have far more vendors and far more available parts than the HK41/91 parts.

As far as function of the two rifles, the AR is cleaner, more accurate, more ergonomic, and easier to add accessories to. Pricing is cheaper for better features for the AR, but there's a tendency to spend more on the AR since there are excellent options available like good triggers, good stocks etc.

Frankly, I'm struggling to see ANY advantage to the PTR, unless of course you really hate your brass.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Had one and sold it. Don't miss it.

The lower slid back and forth annoyingly, mine was never totally reliable, magazines fell out on occasion, just didn't like it.

 

[DLrocket89]

One of my friends has one. Good rifle...it's not a precision tool by any means, but it runs 100% reliable with anything we've trying running through it. The stock diopter sites are amazing, if I had one I wouldn't put a scope or anything on it.

Couple of other pros - 20 round magazines are $2.99 surplus. You get to do the cool HK "slap"

Biggest con in my book - weight. Call it 9-10 pounds.

 

[csa77]

I like the ptr since its different but there really aren't any good advantages to it over the AR except maybe the cost of mags.

as usual with any AR, the ar10 can be better across all metrics if you want to spend the cash and build it that way

 

[Swampman]

I don't actually own a PTR 91, but my youngest son bought a GI model a few years back so I've had a little experience with them.

He bought the rifle new and it came from the factory with a canted front sight. It was bad enough that the sights couldn't be adjusted to hit within 2 inches of the bull, even at 25 yards.

PTR fixed the rifle quickly and paid shipping both ways, so the CS is good, even though the QC may be a little lacking at times (to be fair, every manufacturer has the occasional "oops").

Accuracy of the rifle was very impressive when shooting from a bench with bags and a scope. It would keep every load we tested under 2 inches at 100 yards and some went into an inch. These groups (5 shot) were all fired with handloads featuring Sierra or Nosler bullets, but none were actually tailored for that rifle. It grouped considerably better than most stock M1A's I've shot, including my 30+ year old "standard" model and a friend's much newer SA "loaded" rifle.

From field positions the PTR doesn't do near as well, being outshot by damn near every rifle I own.

The stock PTR trigger is horrible, the ergonomics suck, it's almost as heavy as Rosie O'Donnell and it has the effortless pointability of a 4'×8' sheet of plywood. The fact that it chews up brass isn't really an issue since the cases are thrown into low earth orbit and you'll probably never find 'em anyway.

Roller locked rifles also seem to kick about twice as hard as an M1A firing equivalent ammo.

With all that said the PTR/HK 91 design is one of the most dead nuts reliable self loading rifles ever made. I'd trust a well made CETME style rifle more than I would an AR-10, FAL, or even an M1A in really dusty/muddy/crappy conditions.

The fact that my son was able to buy 100 genuine H&K magazines for less than the cost of 4 Check-Mate M14/M1A mags was also nice.

 

[Havok7416]

I should add that because of the brass launching issue mentioned above, I put a rigid brass catcher on my PTR. It snaps on and off with no tools, stays put and doesn't effect the function of the rifle one bit. I just snap it off every 2-3 mags or so and dump the brass out.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have a PTR-91. It's a decent copy of the H&K / G3. My complaints about it are not with the manufacture, but with the general design. I find the FAL to be better. The design philosophy of the G3 is as brutal as that of the FAL is sophisticated. It reflects the national character of the Germans as opposed to that of the Belgians.

The PTR, as delivered, could use a metal trigger housing and a beavertail (bipod-style) forend. These are available as surplus. The bayonet is unique in being mounted above the barrel. It needs a special adapter that replaces the plug at the end of the charging handle tube.

All in all, the PTR-91 is not one of my favorite guns.

 

[Prijador]

Just to back up what mshootnit said, some parts (not all, but some) are notably lower quality - at least on the example I bought, oh, 6 years ago?

The locking piece in particular looked like it made out of play doh comparted to the HK part I bought. Other parts appeared to be equal to the HK counterpart. As near as I can tell, my PTR-32 was from the original batch. The QC issues may be far in the past at this point.

The HK/PTR receiver is notably quite long compared to an AR - my Robinson XCR is shorter than the PTR even though the XCR barrel is two inches longer.
Rollers of a different size may eventually needed to adjust for bolt gap.