Recently, I have been contemplating a new rifle for both hunting and just fun. The PTR 91 FR (http://www.ptr91.com/products/PTR 91 FR?id=49) looks very promising to me, as it is in .308, is a proven rifle with a lot of spare and aftermarket parts, and that model has a rail for scope mounting. I would also like to take it hunting. I am aware it is heavier than most would recommend for this, but I am used to lugging heavier stuff up and down hills for a living anyways, so i don't really mind. I don't reload, so i am not too concerned with the tendency G3 pattern rifles have with the marring of the brass. The price point is nice at a little over $1000. but i am wondering how i would mount a scope. the picture PTR has online has the scope set so low it looks like the front sight would block the middle of the reticle (like in this picture (http://www.ptr91.com/products/PTR MSG 91?id=11). Would a workable scope sit too high to be practical? any input is appreciated!
G3/PTR 91 Hunting and Scope Mounting
- Thread starter toetoe31
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stubbicatt
Member
I don't know your particular rifle, but I use the clamp on hensholdt scope on mine. I've shot prairie dogs with it, one in particular at about 330 yards, with witnesses, and the pd was on the run!
I followed the link in your posting, and the rifle shown has a rail on the receiver. I would think a short scope would work well on such a rifle. As far as the front sight, the focus of the optic is such that unless you look for it, most likely you won't see the front sight other than as a vestigial shadow.
To keep the brass from damaging itself upon ejection, and to keep the empties in the same zip code as your rifle, i have found a port buffer to be very helpful.
I followed the link in your posting, and the rifle shown has a rail on the receiver. I would think a short scope would work well on such a rifle. As far as the front sight, the focus of the optic is such that unless you look for it, most likely you won't see the front sight other than as a vestigial shadow.
To keep the brass from damaging itself upon ejection, and to keep the empties in the same zip code as your rifle, i have found a port buffer to be very helpful.
WhyWaltzWhenUCanR&R
Member
I own an older JLD PTR 91, in the .308 caliber myself. I use it for hunting as well as fun. I used a set of high rise scope rings which allow me to still use the diopter iron sights, for close up shots. Welcome to the club.
Ohen Cepel
Member
You may need a pad on the stock for a good check weld if you put the scope high enough to get over the front sight.
I have a non-PTR version of the rifle with the Hensoldt clamp mount and that is what I need to do when I put the scope on as it sits high.
Good rifles and I like them a lot.
I have a non-PTR version of the rifle with the Hensoldt clamp mount and that is what I need to do when I put the scope on as it sits high.
Good rifles and I like them a lot.
When I had my HK91 I used the claw mounts on the market that copied the issue ones in every feature (except price.) I mounted a first gen Aimpoint on it and the combo got deer.
Yes, first gen Aimpoint does date me. It was new and the only model on the market. I had no issues with needing a cheek rest, scopes with large bells force the centerline of the scope higher and that creates the issue, hence the sniper versions enhanced stock to compensate.
If it's a hunter then more than 4 power is going to get you a lot of views where it's all fur and a bit challenging to figure out which end of the deer is being targeted. The Aimpoint with no power adapter worked fine for me out to 125m in the few places I could get that far a shot. It varies and your environment is the key factor.
I lugged mine around for a long time hunting in all sorts of weather and it always worked.
Yes, first gen Aimpoint does date me. It was new and the only model on the market. I had no issues with needing a cheek rest, scopes with large bells force the centerline of the scope higher and that creates the issue, hence the sniper versions enhanced stock to compensate.
If it's a hunter then more than 4 power is going to get you a lot of views where it's all fur and a bit challenging to figure out which end of the deer is being targeted. The Aimpoint with no power adapter worked fine for me out to 125m in the few places I could get that far a shot. It varies and your environment is the key factor.
I lugged mine around for a long time hunting in all sorts of weather and it always worked.
You covered the "Heavy" part so I won't hit much on that except to say that that PTR quad rail is a pretty heavy fore-arm. It makes the rifle nose heavy. for hunting I'd swap it out with a normal HK plastic hand guard of whichever style you prefer.
On scoping a PTR you have two issues: Scope length, and eye position. The PTR charging handle comes back to just in front of the receiver, and then pivots up 20 or 30 degrees to lock the bolt to the rear. You "HK Slap" it down to chamber a round. So you need to make sure your scope objective bell is far enough back/up/small enough that it not only allows the handle to move through it's arc, but doesn't block your hand when you slap it down. Riding the bolt forward on a roller lock is a no-go.
So some careful thought needs to be made. I had a scope similar to the one in your second pic on my PTR91SC, and found that the objective was in the way. I know folks that were doing serious long rang HK builds that have modified the cocking tube so the charging handle goes down rather than up and allows a big scope, but that's a serious modification that involves custom fab and a welder.
So for problem 1 you'll want a short and/or skinny scope, or to mount it higher. Which will run you straigt into problem two, getting your eye behind it. HK's have a pretty decent drop to the comb to begin with, and adding a scope makes it worse. Most everyone uses some kind of cheek riser. Either a built into the stock (like Magpul's PRS, heavy) or slip on like this one.
You'll want to be realistic about how much scope you need for your planned shots, find the shortest one you can, mount it as low as the rear sight and charging handle will let you, then build up your stock to get your head behind it.
For me, I was looking for torso sized accuracy at about 600M max,so an MTAC works very well. The straight walled objective is nice and out of the way. I put it in the P.E.P.R. mount it came with, but I wish it was a tic lower. I might end up swapping the mount for a lower one, but for now it works pretty well. I also wanted a side-folding, adjustable LOP stock, so I had to get a little creative. If you are OK with the factory stock, the snap on cheek riser works well. (I actually zeroed the scope with the factory stock, and the riser I linked above from my CETME)
You are on the right track, if you know you want optics, buy a PTR with a welded on rail, and skip the fun of a claw mount.
Obligatory picture:
On scoping a PTR you have two issues: Scope length, and eye position. The PTR charging handle comes back to just in front of the receiver, and then pivots up 20 or 30 degrees to lock the bolt to the rear. You "HK Slap" it down to chamber a round. So you need to make sure your scope objective bell is far enough back/up/small enough that it not only allows the handle to move through it's arc, but doesn't block your hand when you slap it down. Riding the bolt forward on a roller lock is a no-go.
So some careful thought needs to be made. I had a scope similar to the one in your second pic on my PTR91SC, and found that the objective was in the way. I know folks that were doing serious long rang HK builds that have modified the cocking tube so the charging handle goes down rather than up and allows a big scope, but that's a serious modification that involves custom fab and a welder.
So for problem 1 you'll want a short and/or skinny scope, or to mount it higher. Which will run you straigt into problem two, getting your eye behind it. HK's have a pretty decent drop to the comb to begin with, and adding a scope makes it worse. Most everyone uses some kind of cheek riser. Either a built into the stock (like Magpul's PRS, heavy) or slip on like this one.
You'll want to be realistic about how much scope you need for your planned shots, find the shortest one you can, mount it as low as the rear sight and charging handle will let you, then build up your stock to get your head behind it.
For me, I was looking for torso sized accuracy at about 600M max,so an MTAC works very well. The straight walled objective is nice and out of the way. I put it in the P.E.P.R. mount it came with, but I wish it was a tic lower. I might end up swapping the mount for a lower one, but for now it works pretty well. I also wanted a side-folding, adjustable LOP stock, so I had to get a little creative. If you are OK with the factory stock, the snap on cheek riser works well. (I actually zeroed the scope with the factory stock, and the riser I linked above from my CETME)
You are on the right track, if you know you want optics, buy a PTR with a welded on rail, and skip the fun of a claw mount.
Obligatory picture:
Panzerschwein
member
Here is my PTR-91 GI kitted up:
X-Rap
Member
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I had the Springfield variant of the G3 with the cast aluminum receiver that included a full rail. I personally could not imagine packing that thing while hunting let alone combat. It was a good day when someone else became the proud owner.
Only giving my opinion to the OP because he is contemplating and want to give a different point of view.
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Only giving my opinion to the OP because he is contemplating and want to give a different point of view.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
x-rap, i bet if i took the time to get used to lighter rifles i would feel the same, but i am used to lugging around M249s and other fat girls like that. But thanks very much for all of the advice! and are you still happy you got rid of the old springfield? i heard those are worth something now a days.
X-Rap
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I am not aware of the SAR8 bringing any premium prices, I sold mine for around $900 and that makes one of the few guns in which I haven't at least broke even on.
I get what your saying about how your used to packing heavy loads but I believe there is a difference in doing something because you have to or want to.
I often carry a fairly heavy rifle when I hunt but it balances well to carry and offers benefits I value enough to offset the additional weight.
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I get what your saying about how your used to packing heavy loads but I believe there is a difference in doing something because you have to or want to.
I often carry a fairly heavy rifle when I hunt but it balances well to carry and offers benefits I value enough to offset the additional weight.
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Panzerschwein
member
If you keep your G3 in military configuration GI, they're not that heavy. If you think they're heavy, you need to hit the gym.
But strap optics, forearms, bipods, tripods, lights, lasers, rails, brass catchers, carry handles, side saddles, risers, etc. etc. etc. THATS when they get heavy.
I understand you want to run optics OP. No problem there, but if you're going to be packing it I advise you to find a lightweight mount and lightweight optic. Remember, you don't need a 25x50 variable scope for deer hunting. Some of the operators operating operationally might tell you you need one, but a good 1-6x with a light claw mount will be golden.
But strap optics, forearms, bipods, tripods, lights, lasers, rails, brass catchers, carry handles, side saddles, risers, etc. etc. etc. THATS when they get heavy.
I understand you want to run optics OP. No problem there, but if you're going to be packing it I advise you to find a lightweight mount and lightweight optic. Remember, you don't need a 25x50 variable scope for deer hunting. Some of the operators operating operationally might tell you you need one, but a good 1-6x with a light claw mount will be golden.
I take off the rear sight. That allows me to put the scope where it needs to be. On 4X the sight hood can throw some glare into the scope on 7X it is not visible. I have thought about cutting the top off the front sight hood. When I go optics ready I really do it. But matte black spray paint might eliminate the glare.
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henschman
Member
You have discovered why the PSG-1s had no front sight. Even if the front sight hood is so out of focus that you can't exactly see it, it will still be there, robbing your scope of light. You want all the light transmission you can get for hunting... if you're a hunter you probably already know that the critters like to come out when the light is lowest.
You have two options... you can notch the front sight hood... this is what I did on my FR-8 scout rifle that has a G3 style front sight on it... or you can mount the scope in taller rings. That requires an equally taller comb on the stock. You can build it up with foam and vet wrap, or get one of the adjustable comb stocks.
Did you know you can get an Armalite DEF-10 for under $1000? I'm not seeing one single advantage the PTR has over something like that.
You have two options... you can notch the front sight hood... this is what I did on my FR-8 scout rifle that has a G3 style front sight on it... or you can mount the scope in taller rings. That requires an equally taller comb on the stock. You can build it up with foam and vet wrap, or get one of the adjustable comb stocks.
Did you know you can get an Armalite DEF-10 for under $1000? I'm not seeing one single advantage the PTR has over something like that.
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