Anybody carry NFA's?

[bigalexe]

Ok this question is 100% curiosity and 0% reasonable purpose.

Does anybody carry or have carried at one time a firearm that would be NFA, either on their person as a CCW or Open Carry. Alternately going outside of pistols, has anybody carried in their vehicle a NFA rifle or shotgun?

By carry I mean actually intending to use it as a personal defense weapon, what I don't mean is back and forth from the range in the case.

I have no idea if this is even legal anywhere in the US. By NFA I mean anything such as Full-Auto (highly doubtful), Short-Barrel, Suppressed, or otherwise. Honestly the ONLY practical purpose I can come up with for using an NFA in self-defense would be using a suppressed pistol (save your ears!) or short-barreled long gun in a home defense situation. It seems that carrying a suppressed pistol would make it ridiculously hard to conceal and the change of losing/damaging a full auto would make it cost prohibitive to do anything risky with.

 

[rfurtkamp]

NFA stuff is perfectly legal here concealed or otherwise. There's a restriction on MG carry for LEO carry, but not civilian.

Not saying it's advisable or smart or any of that.

Things are far more legal in far more places than you believe.

My travel/car gun if I leave town is my MP5K-PDW SBR, my camping or field gun is a Vector HK-51 SBR.

A good shoot will be a good shoot, a bad one will be a bad one. My K is my primary HD weapon as well, it's compact enough to be discreet, and well, I should use what I train with whenever possible.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I carry an SBR around in my car sometimes as long as I am not leaving the state. No legal problems in reality. Technically you can be arrested here for having an NFA firearm in your possession, even if you have the paperwork with you. It's a defense to prosecution, not arrest. From a practical standpoint I have never heard of anyone being arrested that way.

I too believe that a good shoot is a good shoot, even with a 10.5" barrel.

But I can sure see the other side, that some DA might make a point of using an "unusual" firearm for defense against you.

 

[rfurtkamp]

But I can sure see the other side, that some DA might make a point of using an "unusual" firearm for defense against you.

At this point, can make an argument for anything that's in service in some sort of bodyguard role (P90, MP5, etc, in the "It's not unusual to want quality tools that professionals use" vein) or military service (what's so unusual about a fancy version of the best selling rifle design in America?) - I'm not worried much about it myself.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I'm not worried much about it myself.

I'm not worried about it, but the Harold Fish case shows that you never know what can happen.

Also, the HK employee who used an AC556 in self defense shows how a prosecutor can twist things around.

In the end both worked out as good shoots, but they were costly.

 

[rfurtkamp]

Yea, the HK shoot was what made me think about the choice; at the same time, there comes a point when I figured screw it, can't be ruled by fear - if so, I'd never ever leave the house and not own anything hazardous or anything at all.

I also thankfully have the 'cripple can't run' thing on my side - the 'In the unlikely event I needed it, I decided to bring something extremely effective' defense ;0

 

[medalguy]

I'd worry a lot more about the responding officer taking my weapon and scratching his initials and a case/incident number into the weapon which is generally done. Then there's the looooong wait to get your weapon returned to you following any investigation. If charges are filed against the BG it could even be held for evidence in the case and the wait could be many, many years.


For these reasons alone, I carry an inexpensive pistol for SD. Never know what could happen to it.

 

[mljdeckard]

Ayoob says that the odds are, if you use any NFA item, no matter how clean the shoot was, you are likely to be prosecuted. If for no other reason than, no one believes that if you carry one of those things, you weren't looking for trouble.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Ayoob says that the odds are, if you use any NFA item, no matter how clean the shoot was, you are likely to be prosecuted.

But he's just guessing. There have not been enough incidents actually happen for there to be any real data.

The HK employee was prosecuted, the gun store owner who used either an S&W sub gun or an Uzi (cant remember which) to defend his store twice was not prosecuted either time.

Those are the only 2 defensive shootings with MG's that I'm aware of since NFA. Never read of any where a suppressor was used, would think that was more likely. Never heard of any with an SBS or SBR.

So Ayoob may be right but he's basing it all on gut feelings.

 

[PTK]

the gun store owner who used either an s&w sub gun or an uzi (cant remember which)

s&w 76.

 

[jmorris]

Alternately going outside of pistols, has anybody carried in their vehicle a NFA rifle or shotgun?

I have

 

[PTK]

What kind of vehicle and mount is that? Looks handy.

 

[sgtdevildog]

Looks like a jeep wrangler - mount, no idea.

 

[unwise11]

that mount looks like a modified guitar hanger. the brackets looks familiar.

 

[Ian]

When I'm walking around on my rural property I usually carry an SBR AK. Nobody out there to care, and it's lighter and much handier than a full-size rifle. Heck, using it for walking around is the main reason I built it.

 

[GunTech]

I've had my SBS stashed in my car a few times. There are definitely perception issues with having a NFA, and I'd hate there to be an issue, but I expect a lot will depend on the circumstances and the jurisdiction.

As noted, why take the risk if it's not necessary?

 

[Poprivit]

if you carry a NFA firearm as a CCW (which it isn't by definition - not a Title 1 gun); be sure to carry a lawyer in your ammo pouch. The HK guy was helped financially by HK; the bad guy just out of the slammer was dead wrong - then just dead. However, the prosecution went off on the HK defendant and, man, did that cost money - even though he was in the right and in deadly fear of his life. The bad guy was approaching the defendant's car with gun in hand, screaming that he was going to kill the defendant.

Personally, I'da used whatever was handy and would have lit up the bad guy 'till he was just a red mist and a whimper. (There were two more people in the bg's truck.) Yes, I'm ex-law enforcement. Deputy in a sparsely-patrolled area. My backup was a MAC .45 in a case on the passenger seat. Real bu was 20-30 minutes away. That's a long time to lay in the gutter bleeding!

(This is but a vague recollection of events, so chime in with the real story.)

 

[joshk-k]

I don't want to hijack the thread, I'm just curious about jmorris' outfit as well. How discreet is that setup? If someone of average height were casually strolling by your truck, would they see that rifle there?

Josh

 

[Zundfolge]

Here in Colorado my CHL is just that a Concealed HANDGUN License and does not count for SBRs, SBSs or full auto (although some would argue that a handgun with a suppressor would be legal to CCW here).

 

[bigalexe]

So people have actually done it, just wondering.

I feel enlightened a little bit about the usefulness of SB's and still think that indoors the best home defense gun is suppressed, might as well not destroy your ears if you don't have to.

 

[Girodin]

I don't worry much about a clearly good shoot being called a bad shoot or resulting in prosecution solely because an NFA item was used. There is no basis to believe that will happen particularly in a jx that is very gun friendly and supportive of self defense.

I also do not worry much about "proprietorial spin."

The one thing that does cause me a bit of worry is that if things went to court and if convicted there will be a serious sentencing enhancement and/or extra charges for the use of an NFA item. No a lot of things need to go seriously wrong but if they do you are looking at a lot more time.

Ayoob says that the odds are, if you use any NFA item, no matter how clean the shoot was, you are likely to be prosecuted. If for no other reason than, no one believes that if you carry one of those things, you weren't looking for trouble.

TexasRiflemans response is correct. I would add that those causes could potentially be distinguished in a number of ways from other hypothetical potential shoots we could come up with. In short Mr. Ayoob's statement is merely opinion and opinion that does not have a very good basis at that. I'd be interested to search for any cases where an NFA weapon other than a full auto was used.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I agree a good shoot is a good shoot from the criminal trial aspect, but that's not to say it won't cost you. IIRC the HK employee's fees were in the $60k range when all said and done and that was a good shoot. That's several nice MG's worth blown on legal fees (luckily HK picked up part, or all of the bill).

 

[jmorris]

My rack is more for critter getting without blowing out my ears but I guess the judged by 12 vs. carried by 6 rule would apply if I ever needed it for something else. Same OAL as a 16” but a lot more quiet. It sits right up against the roof so the rifle is really up in there and you cannot see it unless you bend down and look up. It is just a section of 1X1X.120 box tube with to rods that I threaded for ATV gun mounts. I bolted it to the roll bar through the factory holes for the soft top door jam.






Same mounts I use on my 3 gun cart.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I agree a good shoot is a good shoot from the criminal trial aspect

True, but a very slightly bad shoot with an MG is a 30 year Minimum Mandatory. If a riccochet hits a bystander, or you pull a gun on the wrong person (i.e. guy raping a girl, who turns out to be his babby momma, and now she is testifying against you so that daddy doesn't go to jail) or any manner of things go haywire you are in serious do do. The same issue with a glock 19 might in a worst case scenario result in a 3 year sentence if the deck is stacked against you, with an MG its a 30 year life sentence.

 

[LiquidTension]

I carry a suppressed SBR in my trunk occasionally but try to not make a habit of it. Theft is far more likely than my needing the rifle.