Anybody carry NFA's?

[Girodin]

IIRC the HK employee's fees were in the $60k range when all said and done and that was a good shoot.

According to the shooter it was $90K (which IME is about right) and HK paid half.

If a riccochet hits a bystander,

Research the doctrine of transferred intent.

or you pull a gun on the wrong person

Depends on state law and whether reasonable mistake is allowed for or not. This varies by JX.

Your overall point is what I was getting at before though. The sentencing enhancement of using a NFA item if convicted is very sever.

There is simply not enough evidence to say that use of an NFA item will in any given case cause there to be a greater likelihood of prosecution.

 

[PTK]

jmorris

Thanks for answering questions about that setup. You just sealed it, I was torn between a Jeep, F250, and Subaru. Jeep it is. Seems best for my needs, AND I can do something neat like that!

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I can tell you that a Browning Hi Power with an AAC Scorpion suppressor fits in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster (lg) quite well, and will conceal under a longer, 3/4 length jacket.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I plan to get a Remington 870 in less than a month that will be cut down into basically a "Witness Protection" and My Ford Ranger has a little spot behind the seats that will conceal it nicely.

 

[PTK]

I can tell you that a Browning Hi Power with an AAC Scorpion suppresssor fits in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster (lg) quite well, and will conceal under a longer, 3/4 length jacket.

Lucky man. I still wish I had one of those little Scorpions, they're just about the only can light enough to cycle on a BHP.

 

[DPris]

I rigged a scabbard up under the roof of my Yamaha Rhino two-seater where it'd be well out of the rain & not readily visible from outside the cockpit.
In it I carry my 14-inch 870 on desert & mountain excursions.
It's quickly accessible, protected from bad weather, and short enough to use through the roll cage if needed in a hurry.

Marijuana farms seem to be on the rise here in Utah, and there are always critters like cougar & bear to consider.

I don't feel any more risk in doing this than in carrying a full-length 870. There's nothing particularly racy or spacey about the gun, I don't see it as being hard to justify. In my case, it was also once carried behind a badge by me.

Denis

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Transferred intent and reasonable mistakes are jury questions. Anyone who is facing a 30 year min man if the jury goes against them has a whole lot to think about.

Here in South Florida the local appellate court reverses about 10% of cases coming up on appeal with an abuse of discretion standard. If a trial judge gets the law completely wrong 10% of the time, imagine what the numbers are for jurors, sometimes its almost a coin flip. If you are facing a 30 year min man, and there is a 10% chance you lose. A 366 day sentence has to at least be considered. If your maximum sentence is 3 years. the same math makes a gamble much more palatable.

 

[JShirley]

Byron used to frequently carry a licensed, converted fa Uzi in his trunk...

 

[kis2]

... I've got to figure out a mount like that in my k5 blazer... that jeep setup is sweet!

nice work.

 

[armoredman]

NFA firearms that are on the National Registry are not prohibited weapons per AZ state law, therefore per our Constititutional Carry, you may indeed carry your registered NFA item(s) concealed on you. Also, that was legal back when we had just CCW permits, and a buddy of mine used to carry a MAC in an SMZ shoulder rig with 2 32 round mags offside. I cannot afford anything on the Registry, but I would be sorely tempted to carry it if I had one, save for one teensey detail - how long does it take to get it back from the evidence locker after a shooting? What are the chances it will be "played with"? What are the chances irreparable harm will occur to it in lockup, and can I do the job with my regularly carried non-NFA firearm?
As much as I would love to carry a CZ75 FA on my person, if I could find one, I wouldn't likely, unless the invasion across the border got seriously intense, then I might wish for a legal happy switch on my permanently semi-auto vz-58.

 

[Girodin]

Transferred intent and reasonable mistakes are jury questions.

Only, in the same way that justified homicide is.

They are principles of law that vary by jurisdiction.

They factor heavily into prosecutroial discretion was my point. If the law allows for reasonable mistake and one's mistake was clearly that, it is unlikely there will be prosecution. Much like if the law allows for use of deadly force under requisite conditions and those requisites are met it is unlikely likely there will be prosecution. Cases where it is less than clear and there is evidence to show the opposite are the ones that typically go to trial.

Yes if it goes to trial a jury will make findings of fact concerning whether a mistake was reasonable and concerning your intent.

If a trial judge gets the law completely wrong 10% of the time, imagine what the numbers are for jurors,

Jurors make findings of fact, not law so I would say the numbers are zero. If the question is how often do they make faulty findings of fact, who knows.

I agree, as mentioned above, however, that the real deterent to using an NFA item is the penalty enhancement one faces in a worst case scenario of trial and conviction. As you noted serious minimum mandatories attach at that point. I should check but the last time I read that section of code I saw no indication that legal ownership negated them either.

 

[DPris]

Aside from the circumstances surrounding its use, the risk of the NFA item becoming an issue in itself would tend to vary largely with the nature of the specific gun involved.

In the case of my little 14-inch 870, it's pretty much a matter of a jury seeing a shotgun model widely used by police, but with 4 inches lopped off the front for convenience.
It has no lights, lasers, or evil looking aftermarket stock on it.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you were to use a belt-fed M60 in a defensive situation, I'd suspect most juries would be a little more susceptible to a bit of an image bump in the road.

Denis

 

[Zombie_Flesh]

Even if was legal I would never carry one of my NFAs (I actually don't have one) for a few reasons.

1- possibility of increasing my chances of prosecution.
2- possibility of increasing my odds of loosing said prosecution.
3- possibility of loosing my NFA if I managed to win above case.

 

[armoredman]

#3 is almost a guarentee - gotta sell something to pay for the lawyers.

 

[PTK]

armoredman,

Boy, that's the truth and then some.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

PTK, haven't you carried your SBR PS90 openly before?

 

[PTK]

Yes, also concealed. And other NFA items, too. While camping or hiking here in MT, I generally pack my SBS 870 or SBS Stoeger double barrel with me in lieu of a heavy pistol like a .454. I'll be damned if I get eaten by a critter.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

How well did it conceal? What was the cover garment?

 

[PTK]

People didn't notice it, ask Oleg.

I just wore my wool jacket over it.

 

[jmorris]

Even if was legal I would never carry one of my NFAs (I actually don't have one) for a few reasons.

1- possibility of increasing my chances of prosecution.
2- possibility of increasing my odds of loosing said prosecution.
3- possibility of loosing my NFA if I managed to win above case.

Taking your thinking a little further, "The reasons I would never carry a gun are...(your reasons here)"

For that matter you should get rid of them all together because what if someone else does something with one of your firearms that will land you in a court room?