Anybody here a Webley fan?

[peacemaker45]

Any Webley fans here ever heard of a cartridge called the .577 Boxer? I read somewhere that webley made a revolver to eat said round, but I'd never heard of it before. Are any of them still around? What are the ballistics on the critter? Does starline make brass for it? lol.

~~~Mat

 

[JJ Hiryuu]

.577 Boxer was made for the Snider rifle conversions of the 1853 Enfield issued by the British armed forces before the Martini rifles were adopted. It was one of the first self contained cartridges in use.

Anyway, I think it would hurt if fired from a Webley revolver, and can't find any reference to it being chambered in one.

 

[cane]

Not a Webley, but the English maker, Trantor, made a .577 5 shot revolver.

 

[Frank Exchange Of Views]

According to my copy of The Webley Story by William Dowell, Webley did build a solid frame, double action revolver around 1866 in a .577 bore cartridge with a one inch case length "of the type now known as Boxer Construction." (p. 52)

It goes on further to describe a problem with the primers backing out of the early Boxer type cartridges requiring Webley to include a detachable plate, perforated for the firing pin to reach the primers, between the cylinder and the breech faceto prevent the primers from backing out and tying up the cylinder.

The Tranter had a similar plate for the same purpose, but that plate also carried the ratchet star as well - I do not recall if the .577 Webley plate did or not and there are no plates showing the Webley disassembled in Dowell's book.

I seem to recall reading about a top-break in some .577 chambering, but do not think that was a Webley. A Pryse maybe?

ETA:

I have always liked the idea of a big bore revolver in a nice low pressure cartridge - I figure that such a revolver could be lighter and more lively in the hand than some of the rather tank-like revolvers we are currently seeing in the super magnum cartridges.

 

[peacemaker45]

Given the utter lack of information that I've been able to turn up online, it seems that if such a critter did exist, it's died a relatively unlamented death. I thought it would be and amusing thing to take to a cowboy match, if any of them were still around. Folks talk about the .45 ACP as being short and fat, a .577 revolver round, now that would really take the cake. LoL

~~~Mat

 

[David Lannon]

.577

Webly made the aboved mentioned 5-shot revolver which was powerful but slow to reload (the cylinder had to be removed and the back plate removed from the cylinder).

Webley Pryse and Webley Bland both made break open 5 shot revolvers in this chambering. I saw one several years ago at the Las Vegas Collectors show for $10,000 if I remember properly.

Cheers
Dave

 

[44AMP]

British theory of Stopping Power

Is BIG and SLOW. They have stuck to this until the general adoption of the 9mm round. They used a 200gr .38 (the US .38 S&W), and the .455 Webley (with a velocity of 600fps and 700 in a different loading).

Before that (and in the small civilian market) there were a number of "pocket revolvers" where were generically called "Bulldogs". Many of these were made for large bore calibers. Very short cases, and a velocity of around 600fps.

The .577 Trantor is not listed in my old copy of Cartridges of the World, but I do recall reading a magazine article where it was mentioned a few years back. The book does list the .476 Ely (dimensionally the same as the .455).

 

[peacemaker45]

Re: Big and Slow

That's not the worst theory I've heard of.

It does beg the question, though. Did the Brits have a different breed of goblin to contend with, than did their continental brethren? After all, accross the channel, they thought a good stopping round was the .32 ACP, as I recall.

~~~Mat

 

[unspellable]

stopping

yes the Brits did have a different breed of goblin to contend with. Out in some of the colonies the locals were not well educated enough to know they were supposed to throw in the towel after being hit with a small caliber bullet.

The 455 Webley by the way, cranks up a good bit more than 600 to 700 fps. The 600 to 700 fps range is resevrved for the bull dog class of cartridges.

 

[jondar]

Quote: The .455 Webley ctg cranks up more than 600-700- fps.

No, the Webley Mk II service cartridge is only 620 fps. Even the .45 ACP cartridges are not recommended for the Mark VI revolvers. I do fire them along with the .45 Auto Rim but have learned to load them down.

 

[NORTEXED]

I came across this one years ago without stocks, and before the days of "internet" to look up pics of things. I made this set myself out of a walnut drawer front and tailored them to what I thought they should look like and what felt good. I shoot it on occasion, using .45 AR cartridges (I scraped up 3 boxes years ago) and reload them with 285 Gr. L.C. bullets over a very modest charge, for an estimated 600-650 fps. They shoot great (partially I'm sure because of thye .454 Colt bullet instead of the .452 ACP bullet), and the gun is a joy. I imagine myself as Lt. Chard of Engineers in the movie "ZULU" fighting off the hoardes



This from the arms collectors guild of Victoria

"In October 1916, when prominent Melbourne gundealer, James Rosier, was auctioning his business, a collector by the name of Mr. H.W.Fry stood in the crowd and bid. He secured two .577 Webley revolvers, one of which in time would pass into the collection of Mr. D.L. Archer who wrote of his purchase in his notebook in 1928. The other Fry purportedly took to America."

 

[dao]

Webley did a model called Webley n° 1 in 1866, a .577 five-shot revolver.

They are very rare, nowodays, and especially expensive.

Tranter made some revolver of the kind, too.

And look there...

 

[unspellable]

Loads

I used to have a wheel barrow load of 455 Colt by Dominion. (455 Colt is the North American civilian version of the 455 Webley). These were loaded with a 265 grain hollow based round nosed lead bullet. As I recall they ran around 765 fps or better. May be that my memory is starting to go but I'd swear they were over 700 fps. Never understood cutting them to 45 ACP as the 455 Colt seemed to be available in the late sixties which is when they were cutting tham as far as I know.

The 45 ACP has an undersized bullet, that might tend to keep pressures down. I don't think pressure is the weak point any way. I had a Webley Green with a cracked forcing cone from factory 45 Colt loads. I'd expect a Webley Mk VI to fail in the same way with overly hot loads. (Short of a gross overload converting it into a hand grenade.) I've not heard of a failure with 45 ACPs, just poor accuracy.

 

[wilson]

Looks like you did a good job to me nortexed.

 

[unspellable]

velocity

Went and dug up my references.

Webley Mk I BP load: 700 fps (1892)

Webley Mk I Cordite load: 600 fps (1894)

Webley Mk II Cordite Load: 600 fps

455 Colt Dominion load: 765 fps

All with 265 grain bullet. I'm not sure exactly when the military round went from lead to hardball, but the Colt round had a lead bullet. At a given pressure you can generally drive a lead bullet a bit faster than a hardball.

 

[cane]

Here are 3 of mine. I just aquired a MKI that was rebuilt for the Royal Navy in 1914.

 

[Sniper X]

Those sure are great loking Webleys! I allways thought the Web looked imposing, and like a shooter. It looks indestructabel. I hear though it shouldn't be loader very heavy.

 

[News Shooter]

Sorta OT

But I was watching "A Night to Remember" last night. It was one of the better Titanic movies.

Near the end they started breaking out Webley's to give to the crew to keep order.

I have a MK IV Singapore in .38 S & W. Fun gun

 

[jondar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't ever heard of a Webley Mk VI chambered for a .455 Colt. I believe these were for the 1917's Colt and S&W. The .455 Colt rounds I have on hand are longer brass. Incidently, these wont fire in my .45 Colt chambered Uberti. Will try to dig these out and check the OAL. A common chambering of the Webley was for the .45 Colt round, but according to Elmer Keith the bullet had to be seated a bit deeper in order for the cylinder to turn so the .45 Auto Rim was more popular.

 

[cane]

The bottom 2 are 38/200 (.38 S&W) and the bottom one is one of the rare revolvers with a safety.

 

[Sniper X]

Is the safety that block above the grip?

 

[cane]

Yes, it's a cross bolt that blocks the hammer. Some police guns were produced this way. You notice the slightly different shape of the frame behind the hammer, kin of humped up.

 

[roo_ster]

Another funky bog-bore Webley chambering was .476 Webley.

In the 1880's Webley developed a rugged and powerful revolver for the British military, the Webley Mk 1. Nicknamed "the British Peacemaker" in the United States, it was manufactured in .450, .455, and .476 calibre and founded a family of revolvers that were the standard handguns of the British Army, Royal Navy, and British police constabularies from 1887 to 1918. The Mark VI (known as the Webley Revolver No. 1 Mark VI after 1927) was the last standard service pistol made by Webley; the most widely-produced of their revolvers, 300,000 were made for service during World War I.

 

[NORTEXED]

Thanks Wilson, It was a labor of love, and one of those deals where you "carve an elephant by cutting off everything that doesn't look like an elephant". I cut the steps on the back first on greatly oversize pieces, got them to fit real well, then started contouring the tops. It was really fun doing it.

 

[unspellable]

Last?

The Mk VI was hardly the last standard service pistol Webley made. I have a WWII vintage Webley in 380-200 revolver in my own collection at present. I do not regard it as especially rare either.