Anyone carry FMJ's

[rbernie]

Sorry for the drift, but this needs fixin':

if I have to shoot in self defense I WILL kill the scumbag, dead scumbags cant come back to bite you in the rear. That is exactly what is taught here in CCW classes.

That's not the law in any state in the Union, and any CHL/CCW class that teachs such a thing is NOT teaching the law. It pays to know the actual law in your state. Trying to KILL someone, as opposed to stopping a threat, is likely to garner you criminal and civil liabilities you'd not want to know.

 

[Eightball]

I have carried FMJs in my 1911, but I only recently got my CCW permit and hardball was the only ammo I knew for certain to feed reliably in the thing, and it was the only firearm for which I had a holster/could carry/etc. I'm working on finding a nice, reliable JHP load for it, but when I was carrying it with FMJs, I just kept in the back of my head that I'd have to be extra careful with my shots......but in my mind, it's better to have something than nothing, and the alternative to the FMJs at the time was nothing.

 

[jdub42]

I do

In my .357 sig.

 

[Yo2slick]

That's not the law in any state in the Union, and any CHL/CCW class that teachs such a thing is NOT teaching the law.

Sorry sir, you are wrong. The law here is that I dont have to back down or run away. I have the right to use lethal force as a first option if I am in fear for my life. Please no smart ass responses as you know what I am talking about when I say in fear for my life. That is the law here so instead of spouting off you should maybe do some research. I am also not saying that I would end the threat then walk up and shoot the guy for the killshot. I am simply saying that if I have to shoot in self defense I will shoot to kill. The law doesnt say I have to shoot to injure.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

1911, 230g fmj plinker ammo for home defense- dont want lawyers saying i was laying in wait!

 

[Kind of Blued]

I carry one, the top round in my spare mag, and the rest are JHPs.

 

[texas bulldog]

i do in .380 due to their fairly poor penetration. even in FMJ, it's unlikely they will overpenetrate, and i want to be sure they'll go deep enough to reach vital organs.

in all other calibers, i use JHP always.

to those who are carrying FMJ for reliability reasons...i gotta say that if your gun won't reliably feed HPs, then you probably ought to go with a different gun. any modern handgun really should be able to use HPs. even my 1911 handled them fine from the very start. if it didn't, i would've contacted the factory or traded it in on something that would do the job. just an opinion, of course, and we all know what they say about opinions...

 

[rhoggman]

I think much of this is hogwash. Did not read all 6 pages. There are studies out there stating how much lead actually ends up on target when police have to shoot. Over 80% of shots taken completely miss their intended targets, so to say that they are worried about over penetration for the 20% of shots that actually hit flesh doesn't make much sense.

I would argue that the benefit to using HP ammo in handguns has much more to do with the inflicted wound the ammo causes, and its ability to overcome the human mind, and body than does a typical FMJ round (from a pistol). A larger wound cavity has a better chance of debilitating a human being quicker, especially when a shot is actually well placed.

That being said.... FMJ will kill you just as dead as any other bullet. It may or may not take longer for you to bleed out.

One last thought... more often than not people who "go down" right after being shot with a pistol are most likely overcome by their own psyche, and do not immediately go down for a physiological reason. This is not really as true with rifle calibers due to the entirely different impact they have on the body.

Conclusion: I carry just about anything that works in semi-auto pistol with 10+ rounds. In .380 ACP or above if I shoot you a few times you are probably going to GTFOOD at the very least, and will most likely die if I shoot you more than that. Do I have HP/ Self Defense ammo? Sure why not. Do I need it? Probably better of with a spare mag than a box of $40 rounds, half full on your dresser.

 

[rhoggman]

Does anyone know which weapon kills the most police officers in the USA?

22LR

I have learned that if you have to shoot.... keep shooting until the target stops advancing. FMJ or JHP or whatever you have just keep pulling the trigger. Usually continuing to pull the trigger increases your effectiveness

 

[sthomper]

i was wondering about the jhp expansion failure to expand percentage in actual shootings.. i may be assuming wrong here but real shoot outs would likely involve, ducking and shooting sidways or have an arm extended up (and elbow to get in the way of a kill shot)

i generally find jhp to be about 5 bucks more expensive per 50 rounds than 9mm fmj. and the only hiccups my taurus pt111 g2 has had has been with 124g jhps when racking. never any issue with 9 dollar a box foreign or domestic fmjs....after about 600 rounds.

even bare lead untramax 9mm never hiccuped.


so this make me wonder if most lkely cheaper fmj ammo ammo tends to be more reliable feeding, has field shooting<<<<< data>>>> (not shooting jello....but denim on skin bone deflected rounds and down hoodies at odd angles, made the fieled performance of jhps more like that of fmjs??? a slighlty formed copper coated projectile minus fancy flower expansions ??? or has it been better to perhaps jusify tye extra cost apossible feed problems over fmjs and some pistols?????

 

[sthomper]

on an airplane some type of over penetration might mean something...i was curious about the issue just as data phenomenon....ie, what terrible luck. rubber bullets on a plane maybe?? but defence shooing in the back of ones mine about will it pass thru the curtis mathes tv, and then thru to sections of drywall and end up in the kitchen stove in a casserole being cooked...as it happend with my gandpa trying to outdraw a tv cowboy.....the 45 colt is capable of doing that in fmj....and i expect the same as a squished jhp round.

 

[crazyjennyblack]

I prefer carrying fmj. Given the bulk of some people these days, the vital organs can easily be deeper in the body than the FBI 12". I believe that more penetration is better than more expansion, all things considered. Shot placement is what counts. FMJ is also cheaper, and more reliable in some weapons. Many older military handguns simply were not designed for jhp's. Plastic tips might fix this, but the issue remains.

Of course, I live in the country, I only have a roommate and I'm not worried about walls, overpenetration, etc. YMMV.

 

[CDW4ME]

Zombie thread

Resurrected from nearly 7 years ago - carry on.

 

[Quanah]

Old Injun carry whatever he can get- and knows it is the Injun, not the arrow, that puts meat on the fire.

 

[lsudave]

Necro thread, but I'll play anyway

FMJ in my 9x18 pistols, I've read a lot of info that says with the lighter load and the short barrel, you don't get good expansion with the JHP.

FMJ with the 1911 .45 acp- it's what the gun likes to feed, I'd rather be sure I get a shot off than have a FTF in an emergency

With the 9x19's I own, it depends on each individual pistol, and I don't just use any HP. Go check out the Lucky Gunner website, there's a whole lot of HP bullets that don't expand on their tests- PPU, Fiocchi, IMI etc.

 

[rcmodel]

JHP for me.

If the JHP fails to expand, it will penetrate just like a FMJ.

If it does expand, even a little, it offers superior organ damage to any FMJ.

rc

 

[Skribs]

Unless you can hit your target 100% of the time, some of your rounds will overpenetrate. Your misses that go through anything dry will function like FMJs, hollow ones only expand when they go through something that's mostly water.

My understanding is there is very little reason anymore to go with a FMJ unless you're worried about feeding issues. There's enough self defense ammo out there that some of them are going to outperform FMJs, even in rounds as small as .380 ACP.

I watched a video on Youtube a while back where the guy did gel tests of a bunch of .380 self defense rounds, and classified them as "worse than FMJ, might as well be FMJ, sometimes better than FMJ, or always better than FMJ." It was related to how deep they penetrated and how reliably they expanded.

I'm certain in a .45 pistol, FMJ will almost always be the inferior round, unless you have problems feeding JHP.

 

[Wanderling]

I am by no means a lawyer, but I would think that while both FMJ and JHP may overpenetrate, the JHP was intentionally designed not to. Carrying a FMJ in a high velocity caliber like 9mm is not only somewhat irresponsible from my personal POV, but it can also be shown to be irresponsible by any attorney. "Ladies and gentlemen, this guy deliberately chose to use the type of bullets known to cause over penetration when a round designed to expand and stop was readily available".

 

[JTQ]

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant chose the less lethal round, the FMJ. He intentionally avoided using the dangerous hollow point rounds that produce grotesquely large wound channels in the victims. In addition, since he was smart enough to not get into a shootout in a crowed elevator, the probability of an over penetrating round harming a bystander after a shoot through, was practically nonexistent."

 

[Wanderling]

And that's why there's expert testimony. BTW, FMJ is not as much "less lethal" but rather "less immediately lethal".

 

[JTQ]

And that's why there's expert testimony.

Which expert is going to bring this up?

"Ladies and gentlemen, this guy deliberately chose to use the type of bullets known to cause over penetration when a round designed to expand and stop was readily available".

It's not a valid argument. My post above was sarcasm.