Especially as these companies merge, production gets moved from place to place, and usually lands at the place where it is cheapest. Some items will be subcontracted based on competitive pricing. It's difficult to keep on top of QA in these circumstances.
Anyone notice in decline in quality control in post election era?
- Thread starter Kenneth Lew
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runrabbitrun
member
Maybe we all should just build our own?
It's doable.
It's doable.
makarovnik
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Nope
CoRoMo
Member
The AR15 that I bought in February was on the dealer's shelf for less than ten days. The lower was dated to be built in October.
btw, I got it at a steal of a price.
btw, I got it at a steal of a price.
chuckusaret
member
No, the factory final inspection date on my S&W M&P was Feb 2009 and my FFl received it in March or 27 days after final inspection. Maybe I was just lucky.
colorado_handgunner
Member
From a manufacturing person
I have worked in multiple manufacturing environments handling many aspects of production and can tell you this: abnormally high demand stretches the capacity of a plant and quality tends to suffer as a result. The focus tends to become "Ship product to the customer" no matter what. With this push on throughput, quality tends to suffer from lack of attention to detail in manufacturing, and questionable components being used to meet demand. Sadly, it is the way of manufacturing for many companies, including firearms manufacturers.
I have worked in multiple manufacturing environments handling many aspects of production and can tell you this: abnormally high demand stretches the capacity of a plant and quality tends to suffer as a result. The focus tends to become "Ship product to the customer" no matter what. With this push on throughput, quality tends to suffer from lack of attention to detail in manufacturing, and questionable components being used to meet demand. Sadly, it is the way of manufacturing for many companies, including firearms manufacturers.
Wes Janson
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Most firearms these days make it from manufacturer to dealer inside of 2-3 weeks. Shortest I've seen before was a little over 1 week.
Ben Shepherd
Member
You can have speed or quality. Take your pick. Both is near impossible. This is why custom holster makers and high-end gunsmiths have waiting lists sometimes measured in years instead of days or weeks.
Do you want it right? Or right now?
Sadly our society wants it now, sometimes they even want it yesterday and then wonders why it isn't hand polished and delivered in a velvet lined box with a card signed by inspector #436.
BTW: How does your job performance do when you've worked 3 solid months of overtime, and the back orders just keep getting deeper? Been there. Sucks. Most especially when you're under contract with a .gov agency.
Do you want it right? Or right now?
Sadly our society wants it now, sometimes they even want it yesterday and then wonders why it isn't hand polished and delivered in a velvet lined box with a card signed by inspector #436.
BTW: How does your job performance do when you've worked 3 solid months of overtime, and the back orders just keep getting deeper? Been there. Sucks. Most especially when you're under contract with a .gov agency.
MetalMan52
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I've been in the tool and die industry for the last 28 years and there is an old saying. "There are three factors in manufacturing, speed, quality and price, pick two."
Pat
Pat
Can't speak to manufacturing...
I can't speak to manufacturing since I'm way to independent to work an assembly line, but I do appliance repair, and I can tell you that the average age in my line is going up. I attribute it to the 'glamor' of the high tech industry. People in my town would rather pay me 65 an hour while waiting tables for tips and hoping for a 30/hour high tech job. So, since I'm not worried about dirt under my fingernails I make more than most of my over educated customers with multiple degrees.
It would NOT surprise me to find the same thing in manufacturing. The kids who go into it are looking at is a bridge to whatever they want to do, and treat it like a fast food high school job instead of a career starter they should take pride in, and it comes out in the end product.
I can't speak to manufacturing since I'm way to independent to work an assembly line, but I do appliance repair, and I can tell you that the average age in my line is going up. I attribute it to the 'glamor' of the high tech industry. People in my town would rather pay me 65 an hour while waiting tables for tips and hoping for a 30/hour high tech job. So, since I'm not worried about dirt under my fingernails I make more than most of my over educated customers with multiple degrees.
It would NOT surprise me to find the same thing in manufacturing. The kids who go into it are looking at is a bridge to whatever they want to do, and treat it like a fast food high school job instead of a career starter they should take pride in, and it comes out in the end product.
lamebums
Member
Don't know about the actual performance, but newer batches of Federal .223 100 packs don't look as good as before.
SMMAssociates
Member
I just picked up a Walther PPS in .40. A day or two after I bought it with two magazines, I learned that new shipments would come with only one.... No QC issues, though.
Meantime, I'm very active on a couple of Para forums. It appears that the overall quality of many internal and external parts has decreased, and there are significant issues with finish. Overall quality isn't really too awful, but some interesting stuff has popped up.
My take on this is that there was a huge jump in sales after Katrina and the confiscation debacle, and before that could really level out, Nobama got elected, and those who were even tempted to buy (either first time, or to stock up) have done so....
Sales needs seem to have tried to outrun production.... Meantime, Para's moving from Canada to the US, with the same sort of problems that you used to be warned about when buying cars: "Don't buy one made the day before a strike or major holiday, and don't buy one made the day that the troops come back to work." And, in Para's case, it's anybody's guess who's working where, who stayed on, who got RIF'd, who got hired, etc.
I think the QC issues will even out. I also think the buying will continue....
Regards,
Meantime, I'm very active on a couple of Para forums. It appears that the overall quality of many internal and external parts has decreased, and there are significant issues with finish. Overall quality isn't really too awful, but some interesting stuff has popped up.
My take on this is that there was a huge jump in sales after Katrina and the confiscation debacle, and before that could really level out, Nobama got elected, and those who were even tempted to buy (either first time, or to stock up) have done so....
Sales needs seem to have tried to outrun production.... Meantime, Para's moving from Canada to the US, with the same sort of problems that you used to be warned about when buying cars: "Don't buy one made the day before a strike or major holiday, and don't buy one made the day that the troops come back to work." And, in Para's case, it's anybody's guess who's working where, who stayed on, who got RIF'd, who got hired, etc.
I think the QC issues will even out. I also think the buying will continue....
Regards,
stubbicatt
Member
Which election? At least since 1994.
I bought 2 bricks of winchester 22 super x and the quality was terrible. I have low power rounds every 5 rounds or so. My slide wont operate correctly every few rounds to where I serviced the pistol several times because I thought something was wrong but nothing helped.
I switched to CCI mini mags and now the gun is flawless.
I think that the revolers will and do suffer the most as
each clylinder hole needs a professional who knows what he is doing to make each shot as accurate as the next. I have a heritage revolver that appears well made but 2 of the cylinder holes are "off" enough that a 1 inch group at 15 yards turns to a 3 inch group everytime. It is not worth returning it so I continue to plink with it while looking for a better 22 revolver.
I switched to CCI mini mags and now the gun is flawless.
I think that the revolers will and do suffer the most as
each clylinder hole needs a professional who knows what he is doing to make each shot as accurate as the next. I have a heritage revolver that appears well made but 2 of the cylinder holes are "off" enough that a 1 inch group at 15 yards turns to a 3 inch group everytime. It is not worth returning it so I continue to plink with it while looking for a better 22 revolver.
SMMAssociates
Member
tkaction:
I've got a Kimber .22LR conversion kit on an old Colt Combat Commander frame. Using PMC rounds, once it gets a little dirty, forget it. (Kimber recommends the Stingers and Mini-Mags.) Slathering the thing with Gunslick seems to help, and Gun Butter is now seeming to be a good alternative. (I'd heard that Gunslick was set to vanish....)
IAC, .22's seem to be more variable than they used to be. Which is kind of odd unless QC is asleep. Got to be about as automated a process as is possible, and keeping priming and powder loads consistent ain't rocket science. Old equipment, maybe? I don't think ammunition quality is really any different than it used to be, other than maybe skimping on inspection.
Regards,
I've got a Kimber .22LR conversion kit on an old Colt Combat Commander frame. Using PMC rounds, once it gets a little dirty, forget it. (Kimber recommends the Stingers and Mini-Mags.) Slathering the thing with Gunslick seems to help, and Gun Butter is now seeming to be a good alternative. (I'd heard that Gunslick was set to vanish....)
IAC, .22's seem to be more variable than they used to be. Which is kind of odd unless QC is asleep. Got to be about as automated a process as is possible, and keeping priming and powder loads consistent ain't rocket science. Old equipment, maybe? I don't think ammunition quality is really any different than it used to be, other than maybe skimping on inspection.
Regards,
I don't wholly cop that attitude myself, but I think it's understandable in a world where, rather be rewarded for hard work and loyalty to company by a nice 20 year pension, one can be let go at the whims of the bean counters and left holding the bag. This even without regard to perfect attendance and work to standard over a period of years.
I'm 25. My generation and those below us grew up learning that no one is responsible for protecting our own wealth accumulation but us. That said, there's still plenty of young'uns with a sense of entitlement who are just lazy slackers. I think the overall loss of workers in skilled fields goes back to the former though. I've done some contracted work in factories before, and most of the younger workers did seem to have an attitude that they deserved their union breaks, pay, benefits, and hours, all because uncle Chuck got him a job in industry. I can hardly blame companies for going overseas when they can find workers that will do as good of a job, or better, for less pay and whining.
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