Anyone refuse to get a carry permit?

[Cosmoline]

I don't expect anyone to admit carrying without a permit (even though it's the kind of admission that wouldn't get them in legal trouble-the carrying MIGHT, but not an after the fact admission).

Do not assume that your law is the world's law. I've been carrying sine permit for many years. You barely needed one here before 04, and since you don't need one at all.

 

[duns]

He says "the 2nd amendment is my permit."

The meaning of the 2A has been debated in the courts. The courts have never held that the 2A lets any person whatsoever keep and bear arms, any weapon of choice, in any place and manner they want to keep or bear it. All human rights in all countries in the world are regulated because the exercise of one person's human right is often the breach of another person's human right. If your friend feels the regulations are excessive, he should campaign to have them changed. He should not secretly violate the regulations -- that will only get him into trouble without doing the public any good at all. When he lands in Court, it will do him no good at all to say "the 2nd amendment is my permit". He will be judged according to statutes and case law and not on his own fatuous interpretation of the 2A as an absolute, unrestricted right.

 

[MarkDozier]

You all are missing a couple if items.
One - What doe the law read in his location
2. Is it an open carry State

In WA we are an open carry state and i know people who. I am oneof them.

 

[ArmedBear]

Bible > 2nd Amendment

I haven't tested that, specifically, but I have collected direct empirical evidence that the 2nd Amendment trumps a phone book, which is thicker.

 

[wishin]

Cosmoline

Do not assume that your law is the world's law. I've been carrying sine permit for many years. You barely needed one here before 04, and since you don't need one at all.

Just as a point of interest, what firearms laws existed in the Alaska Territory before it became a state in 1959?

 

[mljdeckard]

The momentum we have gained in the 'shall issue' movement far outweighs the possible ethical quandry from asking for and paying for permits. That we are changing minds about the proper place of bearing arms has done far more good than the same "I don't need a permit" philosophy which ALWAYS existed PRIOR to the 'shall issue' movement.

 

[ArmedBear]

That we are changing minds about the proper place of bearing arms has done far more good

Bingo!

While I can certainly sympathize with it, the "all-or-nothing" attitude doesn't work in politics. The easiest answer is, "Okay then. Nothing."

We're either going in the right direction, or the wrong one. I prefer the right direction.

 

[Nick5182]

The cost of getting a permit in my state isn't that bad. It's the county you live in that makes it hard. There are several counties whose sheriff's won't let people get permits. I am lucky and live in a county with a great sheriff. The cost of my permit is $20 for the class (roughly 3 hours long) and $10 for the first permit. You can't carry once it expires, but the county gives you 30 days after it expires to get it renewed for $5 per year. If you wait longer than 30 days after it expires, you need to re-take the class. Also, in my state, a permit to carry is also a permit to purchase handguns, and allows you to buy-pass a NICS check when buying long-guns. Another good thing is the wait here is only 3 days.

 

[dom1104]

I haven't tested that, specifically, but I have collected direct empirical evidence that the 2nd Amendment trumps a phone book, which is thicker.

LOL. good one.

But obviously you have never met the .50 BMG of holy writ........





But seriously. Rights can be taken away, by going to prison. Or a felony. And if you have a family they depend on you. Dont drive a car without a drivers liscense, dont carry a gun on public land without a carry permit.


I must admit to being a little lucky, in Indiana its a one time fee fo 150 for life.

 

[NavyLCDR]

dont carry a gun on public land without a carry permit.

But again, that depends on state law. For instance a person in Washington who refuese to get a permit can open carry, loaded, in public. Their only restriction is they have to unload it to be in a vehicle and they cannot conceal the gun on their person.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Bottom line..obey the laws where you are. You will be happier and make a better statement by obeying the law than by defying it.

 

[jcwit]

Right on Jimmy

 

[Cosmoline]

Just as a point of interest, what firearms laws existed in the Alaska Territory before it became a state in 1959?

I don't know. That was territorial law which plays virtually no role in state law. There were a series of federal codes over the territory, mostly trying to pull more tax revenue. There may have been some local city laws on the subject of arms, but Alaskans pre-statehood were by all accounts I've found a very well armed lot. Every period photo seems to feature some firearm or other.

I believe there was a "modernization" push here after statehood that saw the introduction of the anti-ccw laws that remained in place until the advent of shall issue. For some years we had a very odd CCW law that required you to carry a caliber equal to or smaller than the one you qualified on. That was abandoned and then finally Vermont carry was adopted in 2004. It would make an interesting law review article topic.

 

[stealth]

LOL. good one.

But obviously you have never met the .50 BMG of holy writ........





But seriously. Rights can be taken away, by going to prison. Or a felony. And if you have a family they depend on you. Dont drive a car without a drivers liscense, dont carry a gun on public land without a carry permit.


I must admit to being a little lucky, in Indiana its a one time fee fo 150 for life.

Blah, A year or two ago it was only $125 for a life.
Still not bad considering what I'm hearing other people have to pay!

 

[KBintheSLC]

License requirements to carry a firearm are unconstitutional... plain and simple. I won't really be satisfied until every state is like AK/VT. However, I had succumbed to acquiring a permit because the $65 UT fee, $15 finger prints, $10 photos, and $45 class was a lot cheaper than the cost of hiring an attorney to challenge my guilt when I get nabbed. I would rather take the fight to the antis in a more tactful manner. This is more effectively achieved outside of jail, and with my good name untarnished by misdemeanors/felonies.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Don't get to friendly with him, eventualy he is going to get caught and probably sent to jail for a bit.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dom1104
LOL. good one.

But obviously you have never met the .50 BMG of holy writ........





But seriously. Rights can be taken away, by going to prison. Or a felony. And if you have a family they depend on you. Dont drive a car without a drivers liscense, dont carry a gun on public land without a carry permit.


I must admit to being a little lucky, in Indiana its a one time fee fo 150 for life.

Blah, A year or two ago it was only $125 for a life.
Still not bad considering what I'm hearing other people have to pay!

Now if I just wasn't so old, so it would be worthwhile.

 

[rha600]

I'm in FL and have a permit. I don't carry at all since I can't carry at work and leaving it in the car at work (which by FL law companies HAVE to allow) doesn't jive with me.

But the fact that with my permit I can walk into a store, pick out a gun, hand them money and walk out with the gun that day is the reason I got the permit. I'm not sure where you are but I'm guessing that this is a regular rule in any state with CCW? point that out to him and see if that changes his mind.

 

[Hunterdad]

I refuse to get a permit....period. In NY you have to have a damn good reason to get a carry permit. Unfortuneately, I don't have a good reason. I could get what they call the "sportman" which would allow me to carry at the range, camping and hunting. If i can't carry on a day-to-day, I don't see any sense in getting it.

 

[Uncle Billy]

We are all "subjects"- "...one who lives in the territory of, enjoys the protection of, and owes allegiance to a sovereign power or state." Merriam-Webster Online dictionary.

We are "subjects" to the laws of where we live. In this country it's still true that if someone wants a law to be enacted or want one repealed, they have First Amendment rights to try to convince a majority of citizens to agree; then they can elect legislators who will do their bidding- this "democracy" is a "republic"- a representative democracy.

If the gun laws are odious, if the fees are too high or if anyone thinks there ought not be any, then get a majority of people elected to legislatures who will make those changes. But if you can't mobilize enough voters who agree with what you want to change or repeal, then the law remains what it is- Nixon was right: "Silence is assent".

If you go against the law of the place where you live, you have broken trust with your fundamental duty as a citizen: You cannot obey the laws you like and disregard the ones you don't like, because what the laws are or are not is determined by what the will of the majority is, and as a citizen of the USA you've accepted that to be what rules and what you will be obedient to. You can disagree, and shout loudly about it, but you are obligated to obey the law since they were put in place by people who were elected- no one dictates anything here, the majority of the people are the final arbiter of what's legal and what isn't, and all of us are obligated to be subject to their choices, even those that they let happen by their inaction or indifference.

I have had a concealed weapons permit in NY state for 35 or so years. It was hard to get, took 6 months and cost me over $100 back then. That's what the people of New York state have determined will be the law here, and I complied. I complained, but went along anyway.

 

[Gouranga]

I have a bud who won't get one. I do not think he carries concealed and I would not ask him anyway. He has told me "I will carry wherever I want.". When I signed up for my class he was considering it but when he saw what the class cost he balked. I think part of his problem is, as a Air Force MP, he carried everywhere for years. So suddenly, he is untrustworthy and needs to spend $200 on a class and permit?

While I fully understand his sentiment, personally, I think anytime one of us gets arrested for illegal carry, it gives the anti's more ammo. BTW, I can tell you in NC you can carry concealed on your property without a permit (Do need a permit to buy or transfer a handgun though). Here the CCW is for carrying outside your own property.

 

[JohnBT]

"License requirements to carry a firearm are unconstitutional... plain and simple."

Not until the Supreme Court says so. Are you a member of the Supreme Court?

John

 

[bartsitarski]

By carrying concealed without a permit, you are no better than the thugs, gang bangers, and drug dealers that carry without their permits. The law states (whether we like it or not) that you need to have a permit to carry concealed and by breaking that law you are making yourself a bad guy. Just my nickel's worth.

EDIT:
I currently live and work in Cook County IL. I live in a nice and safe suburb but drive to some of my work locations in the roughest areas of Chicago. I moved here from AZ where I DID have a concealed carry permit. Since the laws here are what they are, my Glock and my backup glove box gun stay in the safe and night stand, much to my displeasure. I am a huge supporter of the 2nd amendment and I am involved with Illinois Carry but until laws are passed for us to carry concealed, or carry at all, I will not risk arrest and a felony charge.

 

[Hunterdad]

^^Agreed

 

[duns]

By carrying concealed without a permit, you are no better than the thugs, gang bangers, and drug dealers that carry without their permits. The law states (whether we like it or not) that you need to have a permit to carry concealed and by breaking that law you are making yourself a bad guy. Just my nickel's worth.

True IMO.