Anyone run stiffer recoil springs in there Government sized 1911's

[JROC]

Reason I ask is because while my Colt Combat Elite is a very smooth shooter with your typical 230gr FMJ non +P rounds if you feed some hot .45ACP rounds threw it it starts to kick really hard to the point of being pretty uncomfortable to shoot. I've added a 22lb recoil assemble in my G20, and even with the hottest 10mm loads from Swampfox it's a more pleasent gun to shoot than my Colt CE is with this Double Tap ammo I got for it.(this ammo is rated at 616lb, and 1225 fps. It's 185gr JHP's) It shoots them fine it's just extremely jerky, and snappy with a lot of muzzle flip. I've heard of people upgrading their recoil springs in 10mm 1911, but haven't seen much about it with a .45ACP 1911.

Can you damage a .45 1911 by shooting too hot a load with too soft a recoil spring? What spring rate do most full-sized 1911's recoil spring have, and if you do recommend upgrading to something stiffer what spring rate is common or recommended?

Here's a picture of the gun in question....


Yeah, yeah I look for chances to show off my 1911. I like how it looks.



Thanks,

Jesse

 

[Skylerbone]

16 lbs. is standard, you might try a Wolff 18 1/2 lb. but here's the rub; If it doesn't function 100% you'll be back to square one. To function test it will require you to run through a few boxes which I'll guess is expensive. Shooting that stuff consistently will indeed damage your pistol as it slams back with more momentum than the spring is designed for.

Better to use a 200 gr. or 230 gr. bullet with a bit less velocity. If the pistol is uncontrollable there is less chance of getting a quick and accurate follow up shot.

 

[Lex Luthier]

I have 18 1/2 lb springs in both of my Kimbers. The dude @ my LGS called it a 9mm spring. Cycles satisfactorily with all ammo.

 

[357 Terms]

I have a 18 1/2# in my Kimber; it functions just fine even with my mid/mild plinking handloads.

 

[JROC]

Thanks for the info guys. I will probably give the 18.5lb spring a shot.

I've become a fan of running stiff recoil springs in my guns. As I said I added a Wolff 22lb recoil assembly in my Glock and it makes firing heavy 10mm loads very manageable. I also added a Wolff 16lb(it feels quite a bit stiffer than a 16lb spring should feel to me) in my CZ75 and it makes even firing +p+ rounds feel like regular 9mm rounds felt with the OEM recoil spring, and it seems to still feed everything(less power rounds) I put in it just fine as does my G20.

 

[Coltdriver]

JROC do you run a shok buff? Keeps the frame from getting peened. Has a slight shock deadening effect.

 

[JROC]

^ I do not, but that is a great idea. I will order some.

Thanks,

Jesse

 

[Zak Smith]

For normal .45 ACP, I use a 13 # in my Gov't model. It recoils flatter and faster.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'm not a fan of swapping out springs. I think the engineers who designed the gun kind of figured that out for me. Keep in mind if you use a spring that's say 20% heavier than standard, it is also slamming that slide forward 20% harder than the pistol was designed for. Given the overengineering in quality handguns I'm sure the gun will take it...for awhile...something has to give.

 

[JROC]

^ I agree with your thinking. You drop the slide on my Glock, and it slams forward pretty hard, and it kind of makes you cringe and think of that. Still when firing some of these hot loads it does feel like it slams the slide back pretty hard with the factory spring.

 

[Skylerbone]

It's give and take. I wouldn't put a shok buff in as they can induce all sorts of malfunctions, not what you want in a defense pistol. The forward return to battery is much gentler than the trip back and is also slowed by the feed of the round.

Try the heavier spring if you like but remember it's not a 10mm.

 

[MCMXI]

I use an 18lb Wilson Combat spring in my Kimber TE II but factory springs in Dan Wessons, Ed Browns and my other Kimber (for now). I remove the firing pin safety from Kimbers which seems to result in less drag on the slide. The 18lb spring has been flawless for over 2,000 rounds shooting "major" reloads and factory 230gr ammunition.

 

[MCMXI]

Can you damage a .45 1911 by shooting too hot a load with too soft a recoil spring? What spring rate do most full-sized 1911's recoil spring have, and if you do recommend upgrading to something stiffer what spring rate is common or recommended?

The slide is slowed down by friction between it and the frame, the recoil spring, the hammer and mainspring and the disconnector, but it's finally stopped when it makes contact with a vertical surface in the frame. Some people like the idea of using the softest spring that will reliably function with the ammunition that they use. I have the opposite approach and use the stiffest spring that will reliably function with the ammunition that I use. As for the slide slamming forward with a stiffer spring, the slide is slowed down considerably when it strips a round from the magazine.

 

[GRIZ22]

As for the slide slamming forward with a stiffer spring, the slide is slowed down considerably when it strips a round from the magazine.
__________________

Your thinking is flawed. The slide is also slowed down to a simialr degree stripping a round with a standard spring. The slide still slams forward harder.

Still when firing some of these hot loads it does feel like it slams the slide back pretty hard with the factory spring.

I have the attitude if I need something hotter I go to more gun than try to make the gun do something it really wasn't designed to do.

That's just me.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Can you damage a .45 1911 by shooting too hot a load with too soft a recoil spring?

Yes. And you can also damage it by shooting with too heavy a recoil spring -- the recoil energy is stored by the spring, and expended by returning the slide to battery. A heavy spring can cause severe battering in the return-to-battery mode.

By and large, a standard 16-lb spring is best, even for +P loads. A 12-lb spring is used for light, "powder puff" target loads.

JROC do you run a shok buff? Keeps the frame from getting peened. Has a slight shock deadening effect.

Shock buffers also limit the recoil stroke and can induce stoppages. Some makers (Kimber, for example) strongly advise against using them. If you use one, test it thoroughly before trusting it for carry purposes.

 

[918v]

Most new 1911's already come with 18.5lb springs. I run a 15lb Wolf variable rate and it will reliably cycle standard and light target loads.

 

[MCMXI]

Your thinking is flawed. The slide is also slowed down to a simialr degree stripping a round with a standard spring. The slide still slams forward harder.

How is my thinking flawed? I said nothing about the momentum of the slide with a standard spring. I simply pointed out that the forward momentum of the slide is reduced due to stripping a round from the magazine. Perhaps I should have added "as opposed to letting the slide slam forward without a round being stripped from the magazine" since that is what I meant.

And you can also damage it by shooting with too heavy a recoil spring -- the recoil energy is stored by the spring, and expended by returning the slide to battery. A heavy spring can cause severe battering in the return-to-battery mode.

If anyone here thinks that an 18lb spring is going to batter a 1911 into oblivion then don't use one. We all know that the spring stores energy, but it's far from 100% efficient and energy is lost (converted) in a number of ways. So ask yourself if the slide is going to return to battery with the same acceleration, velocity and momentum that it had when moving rearwards under recoil? It would make for an interesting experiment.

 

[918v]

In a vacuum with synthetic lubricants?

 

[MCgunner]

I shot 220 grain RN cast in my 1911s at around 900 fps and ran 22 lb springs in 'em. They worked fine that way and that, along with a buffer, helped cushion the blow on the frame/slide. With this load and spring combo, my buffers lasted quite a while. I didn't carry the guns, no carry permit back then in this state. I only shot competitions with 'em, mostly pins.

 

[MCMXI]

In a vacuum with synthetic lubricants?

No .... in a hyperbaric decompression chamber running pure oxygen at 5 atmospheres and no synthetics. I'll be taking notes (outside the chamber) while you handle the tricky stuff.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So ask yourself if the slide is going to return to battery with the same acceleration, velocity and momentum that it had when moving rearwards under recoil?

So ask yourself if the part that stops the rearward movement of the slide is the same as the one that stops the forward movement.

By the time you get to a spring heavy enough to make a difference, you have enough spring to ultimately damage the gun.

 

[Gordon]

Yeah back in the day you put in a 22 pound spring for full throttle 230 or so loads and never looked back. With such a spring you could shoot over 5000 rounds , at least and we used the stupid buffers. Not until the fast and furious 3 to 5 day high round count tactical classes came in vouge (which BTW had been going on at API since 1979) did we find that buffers caused stoppages. So came the current 18.5 pound spring for 5" .45 1911s which seem to work well in a balanced way with no buffers.They work very well with tightened slide fits and 500 full power round a day classes in the field conditions.

 

[Slamfire]

Can you damage a .45 1911 by shooting too hot a load with too soft a recoil spring? What spring rate do most full-sized 1911's recoil spring have, and if you do recommend upgrading to something stiffer what spring rate is common or recommended?

I had a Colt frame peen out with 3000 rounds. Colt replaced the frame but did not fix the early unlock issue which caused the slide to move back under too much speed. Wilson Arms fixed the problem. I believe Wilson Arms gunsmiths know more about M1911's than Colt.

I have been using a 22lb Wolff in my Colt, Kimber. Works fine.

If you get failures to eject the spring is too heavy.

 

[1911Tuner]

I don't wish to be contrary or cause disturbances in the force...but before you start upping the action/recoil spring rates...study on a few things.

First off, the original spring wasn't 16 pounds. It was closer to 14 pounds than 16.

Second, even with the slowed return to battery when feeding...an additional 10-15% of forward speed and momentum is still 12-15%.

Third...and this is most important...look at the parts of the gun that are involved in stopping the slide. The slidestop crosspin is impacted by the lower barrel lug feet. Remove the barrel, and install the slidestop pin through the link...and swing it to the in-battery position. Not a lot of meat absorbing that 19-20 ounce slide barrel assembly driven by a (X) pound spring...is it?

Consider now, the area that the slidestop pin bears against when all that force hits it. The holes in the frame. Right? Ever seen slidestop pinholes wallowed out from the pounding? I have. More prevalent in older, unhardened frames, but it's still a factor even in modern guns.

The impact abutments in the slide and frame were designed to take the hit, and they were over-engineered. The lower lug feet weren't.

Fourth...Overspringing the slide makes the magazine function more critical in getting the rising cartridge to feed position in time to meet the breechface. A more energetic meeting also makes it more likely that the slide will knock the round ahead of the slide...losing control and causing the extractor to climb the rim. Not good for extractors.

You're not stopping damage. You're only shifting the area where damage will occur.

The recoil spring's only function is in returning the slide to battery and chambering the next round. That it does decelerate the slide while it's being compressed is incidental. If not for that necessary function, you could remove the spring and fire the gun...repeatedly...and without damage. Ned Christiansen proved it about 10 years ago with a 10mm build that he'd done...firing full-power ammunition.

There's more...but I'll hold off.

 

[MCMXI]

So ask yourself if the part that stops the rearward movement of the slide is the same as the one that stops the forward movement.

Obviously it's not.

By the time you get to a spring heavy enough to make a difference, you have enough spring to ultimately damage the gun.

I think that's called an opinion rather than a fact. A stiffer spring slows down the rearwards acceleration of the slide which in turn affects the ejection pattern of empty cases.