Anyone use bitcoin to buy gun related?

[medalguy]

I hope this is the right place to post. I am offering brass for sale and a potential buyer wanted to know if I accepted bitcoin in payment. I'm somewhat familiar with bitcoin, but has anyone used it to make firearms or ammo purchases? Do any suppliers accept this new payment form? One advantage is there's no tracable record of a purchase as I understand it, so a buyer would be safe in the non-disclosure of just exactly what he was purchasing.

I must admit the application to firearms and related items has my curiousity piqued. And no, I'm not worried that my wife would find out I'm buying another gun.

 

[au01st]

I've never used it to buy anything, but I have a friend who used to be big into "mining" and had several computers set up for it. The thing right now is Bitcoin is kind of bubbling. Will the bubble pop next week? Will it pop in a year? How many coins for how much brass?

 

[Akita1]

I've never used it to buy anything, but I have a friend who used to be big into "mining" and had several computers set up for it. The thing right now is Bitcoin is kind of bubbling. Will the bubble pop next week? Will it pop in a year? How many coins for how much brass?

Echo that - unregulated with essentially nothing to backstop it. Pop goes the balloon (not even sure it warrants the term "bubble").

 

[barnbwt]

It already "degassed" a bit today, when the unhackable Bitcoin site was apparently hacked (obviously damaging its value as a currency greatly). It's bubbling because of the poor fools in Cyprus who can't withdraw more than a couple hundred Euros all trying to run for the exits, in an orderly fashion. Very bad time to be buying in.

Being "untraceable," you could possibly get accused of money laundering or tax evasion if you relied upon it too much, which further damages its abilities as currency. Much, much moreso if many firearms are involved--imagine the "optics" on that one in a courtroom.

"You can't believe everything you read on the Internet" so why the heck would you use it for hard currency?

TCB

 

[spanishjames]

Don't do it. You might as well trade your brass for "magic beans".

 

[jmace57]

It is the preferred method of payment/purchase for black-hat hackers.

 

[avalys]

You can always exchange your BitCoins for cash, so you're not obligated to only spend them with some other vendor that accepts them. Current price is around $130 / BitCoin, but you can trade arbitrary fractions of coins.

BitCoin is pretty cool and it will be a big deal one day. The total number of BitCoins is limited, and the design of the system automatically prevents the introduction of a flood of new BitCoins, so there will never be inflation as a result of anyone "printing BitCoins." Since the supply is limited, the price will continue to rise as it gets more and more popular. I think this is inevitable - BitCoin is still in the very early stages, and will get a whole lot more popular as it matures. The price may drop a bit in the short term, but in the long term, it stands to increase quite a bit more, as long as the governments do not step in and declare it illegal. I think it would be very difficult for a government to do that - because of how the system works, you could probably argue that a ban on BitCoins would be a violation of the 1st amendment in the US.

That said - at the moment, I think BitCoin is a bit risky and technically immature. The design of the BitCoin system itself is sound, but the sites that allow you to exchange your BitCoins for dollars are all a bit shady and of questionable quality - and if they get hacked or suffer a technical malfunction, your BitCoins can be stolen or literally lost. This is not a theoretical issue - it has happened many times already in the short history of BitCoin.

For the moment, it's a cool thing and a novelty, and in any case you should be able to exchange your BitCoins for dollars pretty easily and without much risk if someone wants to pay you with them. Make sure you charge a healthy premium for the inconvenience and the volatility, like 25% of the current exchange rate or something. Alternatively, you can just hold onto the BitCoins and gamble that the price will increase, which I think is a reasonable bet.

My prediction is in the next 2-3 years BitCoin will become a major force in international finance, and, yes, international crime. It will be really interesting to see where it leads. And for anyone concerned about "Big Brother" monitoring your transactions and your finances, it is a perfect solution.

 

[Blackhawk30]

FYI< there is a write up on Bitcoin in today's Washington Post.

 

[medalguy]

I tend towards the thinking that this is an early technology, and it's bound to have ups and downs but eventually may pan out to a viable payment method. I remember when Paypal was in its infancy, and no one wanted to use it until evilbay forced it upon us. As far as variation in value, just look at currency trading. It's becoming a popular day trading venue these days.

I think I'll hold off on selling for bitcoin, but I was wondering if anyone had really used it, and apparently the answer is no. If the Pentagon and Michelle Obama's files can be hacked, certainly Bitcoin is not immune.

Thanks to all for the thoughts and comments.

 

[Sambo82]

I've been considering about getting into bitcoin for a while, and if you do I'd like to know how it turns out. It's an anonymous tax free way to shop and I think that's a good selling point. People tend to be wary of it because it's not an official currency, but the way I see it I'm not cashing in my 401k and putting it in bitcoin; at most I'll have a couple of hundred dollars worth at a time, so if something catastrophic did happen to it it's not like I'd be losing my house or anything.

 

[WardenWolf]

Bitcoin's time is coming very soon. As soon as the US government and other major world governments finally notice it, it will be declared a rogue or counterfeit currency and outlawed overnight. No financial institution will be allowed to deal with it or exchange it. I'm not just fear-mongering. Governments don't like currencies they can't regulate. It simply won't be allowed to fly, and it will become difficult, expensive, and illegal to convert major currencies to Bitcoins and vise versa.

There's a saying that when something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Bitcoin's inability to be regulated and controlled seems like a dream come true for some people, but that very nature is why it's going to become a target for major governments worldwide. My advice is don't touch it.

 

[wriggly]

Bitcoin's time is coming very soon. As soon as the US government and other major world governments finally notice it, it will be declared a rogue or counterfeit currency and outlawed overnight. No financial institution will be allowed to deal with it or exchange it. I'm not just fear-mongering. Governments don't like currencies they can't regulate. It simply won't be allowed to fly, and it will become difficult, expensive, and illegal to convert major currencies to Bitcoins and vise versa.

There's a saying that when something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Bitcoin's inability to be regulated and controlled seems like a dream come true for some people, but that very nature is why it's going to become a target for major governments worldwide. My advice is don't touch it.

Sage advice indeed. Anyone that thinks it cant happen, just ask some of the online poker players that had lighter pockets after the gov stepped in.

 

[316SS]

If you were selling car parts would you have asked this question on an automotive forum? The crux of your question is about bitcoin, so you might seek a credible authority on that subject, starting with the bitcoin wiki. That page has a link to bitcoin myths, several of which have been claimed in this thread.

Good luck.

 

[blarby]

Then there is the other side of the coin.

A lot of folks could care less what the .govs say about bitcoins.... as long as they can still exchange them for goods, there will be a market for bitcoins.

If you do a little research into how bitcoins are folded, what they are primarily used for, and who trades and accepts them for goods.... you'll notice that .gov interference might not quite be the nail in the coffin its meant to be.

Just about anyone that needed a large amount of crowd-sourced basic computational power could hookup to proxy coin servers to get what they need- and thats a FANTASTIC feature if you do any large scale computational projects.

BUT THE .GOV's WILL SHUT IT ALL DOWN !

Ya, they're real, real good at changing and stopping global internet traffic.....lol

I fold on 6 spare graphic enhanced PC's, and coining has gotten me some pretty cool schwag.

But then again, I'm used to shady merchants and internet transactions- I live in america, and I trade secondhand firearms materials on the internet too- everytime I don't get burned, I'm pleasantly surprised.

When I first started folding, bitcoins were worth about $26 or $27 if I recall.

On any given day in the last week, they were easily worth 5 times that.

Its been a great investment of.... sleeping and showering time. Folding PC's don't sleep or shower- I do.

My investment in folding rigs has been about $650 give or take one or two switches that went bad in the beginning. You can do a lot better with faster graphic chips, but the power consumption goes through the roof, too. I spend about $70 extra in electricity a month to power my low wattage PC's.... in exchange I get about 4 and a quarter coins per month as of last month.... That ain't real shabby.

Bout the only thing that hoses me is my IP constantly perferming maintenac at weird hours with no notice.... but with simple restarting timeout macros, anything can be compensated against...its just lost time.


Anyways, back to the original question :

Would I take coins ? Heck ya. I know how to use them.

Should you ? Perhaps after doing a little research, but thats a personal choice.

 

[CmdrSlander]

Buy a marginally legal item (always look on used guns with suspicion) with marginally legal currency...

What could go wrong?

Don't get me wrong, as a Libertarian I love the idea of a non-governmental currency, but I wouldn't use it, at this stage, for something as major as a gun. Especially considering bitcoin's THE currency of choice for online drug dealers who use the "Silk Road" drug sales site.

 

[blarby]

Just out of curiosity, how is used gun a marginally legal item ?

 

[Teachu2]

I think he means of uncertain ownership...

 

[CmdrSlander]

Just out of curiosity, how is used gun a marginally legal item ?

It isn't necessarily, but of all the things one buys used it is up there with regard to having been involved in something nefarious. Still unlikely, of course, but I don't want to be they guy who ends up buying a gun with a body or two on it via the internet with bitcoin as the means of payment...

 

[CmdrSlander]

I think he means of uncertain ownership...

Exactly.

 

[blarby]

Ok, looks like it was a mis-communication/explanation.

Not here to split hairs on verbiage.

Carry on !

 

[316SS]

Buy a marginally legal item (always look on used guns with suspicion) with marginally legal currency...

What could go wrong?

The OP is asking about accepting bitcoin for used brass. I don't think anyone is banned (yet) from purchasing cases. But if you are going to purchase something marginally (or completely) illegal, bitcoin would be a good choice.

Plus, hard currency (US$) could be considered "marginally legal" since cash transactions are difficult to track for tax purposes, and posession of relatively small amounts (thousands or tens of thousands) in cash is prima facie evidence of criminal activity.

[shameless off-topic thread highjack]
blarby, does use of the term "folding" for mining bitcoins reference the Folding@home project?
[/shameless off-topic thread highjack]

 

[medalguy]

Well actually I was asking if anyone had used bitcoin to BUY anything firearms related. I'm not interested in buying illegal drugs or anything else even marginally illegal. I was asking if anyone HAD USED bitcoin for firearms related purchases. I was wondering if any retailers were accepting bitcoin, or if anyone on this or any other forum had accepted, or used bitrcoin to buy, anything. Apparently this is not the case.

 

[WardenWolf]

All I can really say is, I don't want to be caught with a ton of Bitcoins when there's a massive crackdown on it and suddenly the only places that can exchange it are in Switzerland and Nigeria, and even then doing so is illegal. And those places KNOW they're the only ones that can do it and charge you a massive fee if not outright defraud you.

Anyone who buys firearms-related stuff with Bitcoins can probably expect an ATF visit in the near future. They may even be able to get a warrant, because using a shadow currency like that could certainly qualify as probable cause that you are doing something illegal.

 

[medalguy]

That's unlikely because there's no public record of purchases made with Bitcoin. That is touted as one of the advantages of it. Once again, I'm not trying to evade any laws or buy anything illegal. Simply wondering if anyone has any experience with Bitcoin re guns and related items.

 

[WardenWolf]

Until the seller gets busted and they trace it to you through emails and whatnot. If you put anything in writing, it's traceable. And there's all sorts of tax evasion laws that can be applied to bust people who do Bitcoin transactions, even without the currency itself being banned. Using Bitcoins is a legal minefield.