AR-15 Poll

[ugaarguy]

Not all ARs are created equal, no matter how much someone will try to say they are. The devil is in the details. Most brands will work fine for a casual plinker, but when you are taking intensive classes or placing your life on the line, you would be smart to buy higher quality rifles and parts. I will trust any of my rifles in a fight, because I don't buy the lowest cost weapon available.

I'd go with the Charles Daly AR or an LMT for that price. Nothing else, except a higher priced Colt, Noveske, or similar higher end AR.

I agree. Although it must be noted that only the Daly D4LE is built with spec parts. I'd also note that Pat Rogers has recommended the new S&W M&P-15s (those made after S&W brought production in house and quit sourcing from Stag) on the thread at ar15.com linked in my above post.

 

[rangerruck]

I'm with W.E.G. , get a rifle with as many forged, milled , milspec, milstandard made parts as possible.

 

[sundance43.5]

Holy Jebus,

Who in their right mind would recommend a Bushmaster over an LMT when the LMT can be had for the same money or less?

 

[UnTainted]

armalite

 

[HuntAndFish]

Colt.

 

[AR-15 Rep]

I do not believe stag makes parts for most AR rifles.

 

[Bailey Guns]

All you guys who are saying "Colt", let the rest of us in on where you're buying them for "around $1K", as the OP asked.

I need to pick up a few at that price.

 

[rklessdriver]

I just bought (3) CMMG bargin Bin M4's. $570.00 each all on DMPS lowers. I figured the other 2 would make good X-Mas gifts for my Dad and Little Brother.

The CMMG Bargin bin is currently out of order but not to worry, it will come back on line in a few months.

I have also built a few AR's over the years some with top shelf componets some with bottom tier componets for less than 1K. Delton, MA Parts, and Model 1 Sales have all done right by me.
Will

 

[lmccrock]

Some manufacturers (like DPMS) seem to not know what a 5.56 chamber is, and their chambers are actually cut for a .223 chamber.

I have a DPMS barrel on an upper. It is clearly marked "223". Does DPMS make barrels cut to .223 and stamp them 5.56? Regardless, 5.56 runs fine in my DPMS "223" barrel.

Did you know that which ever AR-15 that you buy, most of the parts are made by Stag

I do not believe stag makes parts for most AR rifles.

More correct: Stag is the retail arm of CMT, and CMT acts as fabricator for other companies. It would be interesting to see who makes what for who.

Lee

 

[H2O MAN]

rob_s, the guy that put the list together ... is now suggesting 1st time AR buyers purchase a Noveske standard.







I ended up buying a Colt LE 6920 - I have not fired it and if my girls doesn't like it I'll sell it to fund another M14.


.

 

[strat81]

I do not believe stag makes parts for most AR rifles.

Stag's parent company, CMT, does.

I'm with W.E.G. , get a rifle with as many forged, milled , milspec, milstandard made parts as possible.

How can you recommend a rifle when the original poster did not say what his needs are? If he is hunting midsize or large game, there are better choices than .223. If he's varmint hunting, a mil-spec 1/7" is not the best choice for light, fast bullets. If he's shooting matches, mil-spec is a bad idea too. If his goal is accuracy, mil-spec is not the way to go. And even if he wants a fighting carbine or rifle, mil-spec is not always the best. PMAGs and CTR stocks are not mil-spec but are some of the hottest parts for AR-15s right now. For a DI AR-15, most folks will want mil-spec upper and lower receivers. And even that is not 100% true since finishes vary by manufacturer and not all are "mil-spec."



As for the chart... It's biased, out of date, and useless. "The chart" is BS. For the BCG section, just buy a Bravo Company BCG and you'll get all of that stuff for $130. It is MPI'd, shot peened, is properly staked, has the O-ring and uprgraded extractor spring, etc etc. Skip or sell the bolt in your "peon" rifle to recoup part/most of the cost.

The M16 carrier is moot. Unless you have a full-auto gun, they aren't necessary for a reliable rifle.

Mil-spec barrel steel? This is the 4140 and 4150 nonsense. If you shoot full-auto, you might need mil-spec steel. Moot again. Thousands of rifles have 4140 and 4150 barrels. Neither are melting, bending, or otherwise getting fubared.

MPI and HPT barrel? I suppose it's good to have, but I've never heard evidence that MPI and HPT barrels fail at a lower rate than those that aren't MPI and HPT. Additionally, I'm not sure how old the chart is, but my wife's Bushmaster upper has an MPI barrel (at least it is stamped as such).

Chrome chamber and bore? Good but not essential for maintenance and I've heard that the chrome chamber aids in extraction. A chrome bore potentially harms accuracy but is easier to clean.

Rifling twist plays no part in reliability. Pick your twist based on your ammo needs. Can you afford to feed a 1/7" twist with proper heavy OTM ammo? If you'll be shooting lots of 55gr Wolf and Rem UMC, pretty much any barrel will work.

A 5.56 chamber will matter if you are shooting 5.56NATO-pressure loads. Larger chambers aid in reliability but can hurt accuracy. There is a compromise there.

M4 feedramps seemed to have faded from the "must-have" list. Many manufacturers offer them, and I've never heard of them hurting anything. There are literally tens of thousands of rifles and carbines that do not have M4 feedramps that are as reliable as the sun.

The F-marked FSB matters for flat tops. However, not all bases are marked and not all marked bases have the correct post. Either way, a cheap, proper-height sight post will fix this if you get the wrong one. Plus manufacturers can botch it: http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=371192

Mil-spec receiver extension is a non-issue and does not effect reliability. They do increase choices if you wish to install an after-market stock.

H Buffers are not necessary in most rifles. Some folks like them, some folks don't. Some folks even run 9mm buffers in .223 carbines. A common 14.5", 16", or 20" rifle shouldn't need fancy buffers to run correctly if the rest of the rifle is stock.

Parkerizing under the FSB should not affect reliability either. I suppose if you plan on altering the rifle and removing the OEM FSB, this may become an issue.

The idea that Colts and LMTs are the best AR-15 style rifles is about as ridiculous as the idea that Glocks are perfection (and I own a Glock).

Buy a rifle or carbine from a reputable manufacturer, use quality magazines and quality ammo and you'll be fine. Or, build it yourself. AIMSurplus.com has Superior lowers for $80 and Doublestar lowers for $100. Spikes Tactical is running a group buy on Arfcom for their lowers at $100 (IIRC).

 

[FlyinBryan]

the colt i had was nice but needed the accu wedge bushing to tighten up the upper to lower fit. it was very accurate and would have a small handful of jams per every 1000 rnds.

the bushmaster i have now is very tight, no plastic wedge needed to keep the upper and lower as tight as i like it.

it has seen probably 5000 rounds.

it has never jammed

it is as accurate as the colt. (very)

 

[ugaarguy]

The idea that Colts and LMTs are the best AR-15 style rifles is about as ridiculous as the idea that Glocks are perfection (and I own a Glock).

The already mentioned thread 34 Ways to Cut Corners on Manufacturing an AR15 which is stickied at the top of this forum in the Reading Library_Useful Links is a good read. The companies which cut the least corners in building their rifles are making a better product than those who cut more corners. The differences are black and white.

As for the chart... It's biased, out of date, and useless. "The chart" is BS. For the BCG section, just buy a Bravo Company BCG and you'll get all of that stuff for $130. It is MPI'd, shot peened, is properly staked, has the O-ring and uprgraded extractor spring, etc etc. Skip or sell the bolt in your "peon" rifle to recoup part/most of the cost.

If you buy a rifle that's made correctly you don't have to change out parts.

Additionally, I'm not sure how old the chart is, but my wife's Bushmaster upper has an MPI barrel (at least it is stamped as such).

Bushmaster does MPI on random samples from each batch and stamps all barrels as MPI. Colt, LMT, and a few others actually MPI each barrel.

A 5.56 chamber will matter if you are shooting 5.56NATO-pressure loads. Larger chambers aid in reliability but can hurt accuracy. There is a compromise there.

Yes, and Federal put a bunch of XM193 out on the consumer market just a few months ago. Might be nice to have a barrel with a 5.56 chamber to safely shoot this inexpensive top quality brass cased ammo. S&B and Prvi Partisan also both load M193 and M855, once again a case where a 5.56 chamber is needed.

Can you afford to feed a 1/7" twist with proper heavy OTM ammo?

Again, Prvi Partisan (also sold as Hot Shot & Wolf Gold) offers a 75 gr. OTM brass cased 5.56 round. At under $15 per box most places it's no more expensive than any other quality commercial brass case 5.56 or .223 ammo. 1:7 twist gives you quite a bit of versatility.

Overall I think the idea is that you're most likely to get the best rifle if you buy as close to mil-spec as you can afford; unless you have a specific need that requires a deviation from those specs.

 

[Red_SC]

Shoot me an email sometime if you want to drop by and shoot my Bushmaster, I'm in the Darlington SC area.

 

[Avenger29]

Holy Jebus,

Who in their right mind would recommend a Bushmaster over an LMT when the LMT can be had for the same money or less?

EXACTLY. There are many brands, like Bushmaster, that sell for the price of LMT (or Charles Daly/similar). There are also unscrupulous dealers who sell DPMS and Olympics for the price of LMTS. They sell the rifles to people who have no idea about the quality or differences in ARs.

 

[sadlsor]

FWIW, I bought a Bushmaster through the CMP. All you do is find a range that's hosting a Garand clinic, or hi-power clinic, and it certifies you to purchase a CMP weapon at a discount. I enjoy shooting mine quite a lot. IIRC, I saved about 24% or more over paying retail.

IME, many guns, if not MOST, will outshoot the trigger-handler.

I do agree, there are a few recommendations without sufficient prerequisite info from the OP.

That's my opinion, and it should be yours.

 

[brentn]

armalite, surprised its not on the list.

 

[BigGunsMoreFun]

Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel of .50 Beowulf

I like most AR-15s however my all time favorite is the Alexander Arms. The make a nice AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel and in .50 Beowulf. I have owned a few AR-15s and shot most of the ones on the market today. I like them all but I love the Alexander Arms.

I currently own the .50 Beowulf in their Overwatch configuration. It is by far the most excellent heavy caliber AR-15 rifle I have ever owned. So far mine has shown MOA accuracy. I am not that good a shot. I can hold about a 2" group at 100 yards. My dad who is a retired Army Ranger can shoot 1" groups at 100 yards all day long with this rifle. There are times when he gets to "feeling right" as he calls it and he can get sub-MOA groups out of it at 100 yards.

The .50 Beowulf is a sturdy, accurate, reliable rifle that has never once jammed, stovepiped or mis-fired since I have owned it.

The Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel is also an excellent rifle and shoots sub-MOA if you have the right person behind the rifle. I don't own one YET! My brother has one and he and my dad both can shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards with it all day long. I have to get me one of these. Again, it is also a sturdy, accurate, reliable rifle that has never once jammed, stovepiped or mis-fired since my brother has owned it.

Neither of these rifles is for the shooter on a tight budget. The rifles generally MSRP at close to $2000 and ammo is around $1 a round if you buy factory made stuff. I have a friend that is an FFL that got me a really good deal on the Beowulf but I still have close to $2500 in it once I put a scope, bipod, trigger group and sling on it and bought the reload dies for it.

My brother has a little more in his Grendel but he paid almost $800 just for his scope. We both buy ammo by the case and reload it about 5 times before we buy new ammo. Ammo is hard to get for the .50 Beowulf and you usually have to wait a few months for it.

These guns are great. The folks at Alexander Arms are some of the best I have ever dealt with. They are nice and friendly and stand behind their product. They made a mistake on my original order so to make it good they installed a free muzzle brake and gave me 5 boxes of ammo just because their mistake delayed me getting the rifle by a couple of weeks.

If you want an excellent AR-15 with sub-MOA accuracy, the Grendel is the gun for you. If you're like me and love the big boomers but also love the AR-15 platform, go with the Beowulf. Either way you can't go wrong.

Molon Labe,
Joe

 

[jlundy46]

I went with the S&W M&P15 and put an EOTech 512 holographic sight on it. I am really happy with it.

John

 

[Hypnogator]

Cmmg

 

[Joey2tone]

My first post!

I rummage around other forums and this is my first post here! I've shopped many of the shows around here and asked the ?'s you are! I'm very happy with what I've come up with. RRA lower and upper, DSC collapsible, Wilson 1/8 twist non-chrome barrel, standard dia. carbine length HG. GG&G BUIS rear sight. I'm very, very, very happy with the results. I'm still working on the accuracy issue but from my experience I'd say 3/4 MOA close range out of the box for a home built with good parts is cake!

 

[gladi8tr]

i bought my lmt had never looked back she eats all ammo and is more accurate than i need it for. I feel when i have to depend mine and my families life money is no object. Also lmt was reccomended by alot of leo freinds of mine and alot of people on this forum, how can a million chinese people be wrong about rice huh

 

[Lonestar.45]

LMT upper w/a Stag lower. I think that would absolutely give you the best bang for the buck.

 

[GBExpat]

Which AR-15 do you like best for around a $1,000 +/- ?

The thing that surprised me was that folks are readily paying a grand for an AR-15 now ... I guess I just haven't been following pricing on store-bought ARs for several years.

I bought my first AR, a Bushy, a few years ago ('02?) for about $700, IIRC, and then rolled a couple from parts for $450-$550 each ... and by then decided that I was not a fan of Stoner's direct gas design and changed my focus to other flavors.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Colt