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AR 15 Sighting Options?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Racinfan83, Sep 8, 2010.

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  1. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    I currently have an AR with the carry handle. I have a cheapie 3x9 scope on it with the single screw-in mount that goes in the handle groove. I am thinking of trading mine in for a Stag 8 that has the Midwest flip-up open sights. I want to be able to use the iron sights - but in reality this is a toy gun that I would like to be able to shoot accurately at 200 yards - thus I need a fairly powerful scope to even SEE that far. I have never used an eo-tech or anything similar, and the price for one of those is beyond my budget. What can I do here to have accuracy, be able to see a small bullseye at 200 yards, and possibly still be able to use the iron sights?
     
  2. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    Anyone???
     
  3. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Emeritus

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    Keep the scope when you trade the first rifle. Get a riser and some rings and mount the scope on the new rifle. Save up your money for a better scope. :)
     
  4. Sky

    Sky Member

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    If you are talking 200 yards and you like the gun something you might consider depending on your eyes is a red dot. You mount it in front of the carry handle and with proper rings it will co-sight perfectly.

    There are some Russian red dots 1moa for around 200 that look good to me at Kalinka Optics. Russian batteries are junk so life of battery improves with U.S. made batts by approx 40% increase of optic life.

    I have a Vortec Strikefire that is mounted on my carry handle. It is a 3moa red dot that works well for me except for my astigmatism. Just a thought.
     
  5. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    It really depends on how small the stuff you will be shooting at is going to be. If you're going to be shooting at rather large steel plates, a red dot might do you. My eye sight isn't what it used to be, so I run a 1.5X ACOG on my general purpose carbine. For more precise shooting, I run a 2.5-10X variable power scope. The one that I run has very clear glass and resolution. At 100 yards, I typically shoot at targets like paintballs and such. Golf balls are no challenge. At 200 yards, I shoot at golf balls and Nilla wafers.

    When shopping magnified optics, magnification isn't everything. Without clarity and resolution, the magnification almost isn't worth anything for target shooting. In other words, I'll take a 10X with good clear glass over a cheap 20X any day of the week. It's usually a good idea to be able to compare scopes side by side when shopping.

    What's your budget? I really like the Sightron SII line and above. I really don't know why they aren't more popular. Check out manventureoutpost.com They've had the best prices on everything I've shopped that they had in stock. You have to become a "member" of their site to see the prices because their prices are way under MAP.
     
  6. jimmy0622

    jimmy0622 Member

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    The fixed iron sights on your AR are sufficient enough to hit a target at 200 yards (and beyond) without the need for an optic -- I carried an M16-A2 and 200 yards was usually the closest that we shot at the known distance range.

    What do you consider a small target for that distance? If you're looking for an inexpensive red dot that wasn't intended for use on an Airsoft, then try looking at the Vortex SPARC / StrikeFire. Otherwise, try using a larger target that you can see and continue using the irons.

    Cheers
     
  7. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    I can't see to shoot at 200 yards anymore unless I'm tryin to hit a CAR and not picky about where...LOL Getting older and can't see as well. I have a hard time focusing on the irons and keeping the target in focus. I am more of a bench shooting see how good you can group guy. Picking off golf balls at 200 would be cool - though I've never tried it. If I go with the Stag - do they make an easily removable scope mount that holds it's zero? Like a lever lock or something? As for budget - I wouldn't want to spend more then say $300 on sighting and that would be pushing it. I hardly get to shoot anymore... More about having something that I could get tuned up for longer ranges but yet be able to shoot iron sights at an indoor range if I wanted...
     
  8. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    If this is a toy gun, you have lots of options for scopes. I'm a 100% gear snob when it comes to optics on defensive guns. On range toys, it doesn't matter if it fails on you, or if the batteries run out, or the adjustments and non-intuitive and/or require tools, or whatever.

    The big question is this: do you want a magnified optic, or a red dot sight? If your rifle has a fixed carry handle, your magnified optic choices are going to be pretty dismal. The only place you can mount one is above the carry handle. Now, they make see-through mounts that will allow you to put a magified optic up there and still use the irons, but the problem will be that your optic is waaaaaaaaaay up there in the stratosphere, which will adversely affect cheek weld (as in, it will be more like jaw-weld, and not very consistent), and your height-above-bore will make for some interesting bullet drop compensation if you want to vary ranges.

    In truth, you don't need an optic to shoot 200 yards. The AR-series rifle has the best combat-style iron sights on the planet. 200 yds is nothing for that.

    Mike
     
  9. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Edit: you posted while I was replying. golf balls at 200 yrds would be challenging for most people with irons and a good gun. You're talking about something that is about .5 MOA at that distance.

    You need a bigger target. :)
     
  10. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    That is EXACTLY what my issue is now. I can see my irons through the mounts - but the irons on this gun are terrible anyway. I have to do some funky contortions to see through the scope and I have had trouble with the point of impact changing due to the single screw mount. It also changes when I change power on the scope. Scope is a Barska 3x9. My eyes are getting to where iron sights really are not a good option past 100yds and maybe not even that far. What you described is one reason I am thinking of trading my current AR for the Stag..
     
  11. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    Coronach, yes, shooting at golf balls at 200 is fun, but they are actually more like .75 moa in diameter. Regulation diameter is something like no less than 1.6".

    Racinfan, I'm feeling for you. Putting an optic on a A2 isn't easy or the best way to go. I could see going with the mount that fits into the groove on the carry handle and then adding one of those cheek risers to the stock, if you have an A2, but it's less than I deal.

    Personally, I'd swap the upper. You can get a blemished upper for around $60. The only problem is having someone to put it on. I'd do it for you, but I wouldn't let anyone that I don't know go monkeying around with my rifle.

    What make of rifle do you have now? Is the Stag a worthwhile trade? You really need to pay attention to things like barrel twist and match that to the intended purpose of the rifle, although 1:9 is pretty much a commercial standard. If you had a flat top all you would really NEED is a good set of rings to mount the scope, again assuming that you have a full length stock.

    Getting back to the original question. What are you going to be shooting at. A red dot does extend your range to a degree in sense that it's easier to shoot since you are only lining things up on two planes rather than three. The easiest thing to do, considering your upper would be to look into the C-More red dot with the integral handle mount. It allows a good co-witness and would require nothing more than turning a screw to install. I used to run a C-More years ago, before I went to Aimpoints, and they are very tough.

    Something like this...
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=118105

    I know that particular model has a huge dot, but others are available.
     
  12. mbogo

    mbogo Member

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    You've been given some good options already.

    IMO, get a new scope mount for that A2 upper.

    This mount will work with your carry handle and existing irons. [​IMG]

    You can then install an low-magnification Intermediate Eye Relief or Extended Eye Relief scope like those used for turkey hunting or an red dot scope that cowitness with the irons to some degree.
    [​IMG]

    You could always buy a flattop upper assembly and flip-up BUIS. This would allow you to mount a decent scope (nothing made in China, Korea, Taiwan, or the former Soviet Union) in quick release release rings.

    You can sell off the A2 upper and Barska to amortize the cost of the new set-up.

    mbogo
     
  13. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    Thanks! I have not seen mounts like that. I am going to look around some more. I was regretting getting the A2 soon after buying it. Wish I had gotten a flattop in the first place. I got a decent deal on it and should be able to get more in trade then what I paid for it 3 years ago. It is an Olympic with only about 3 boxes of ammo through it. Saw the Stag 8 with the flip-up sights in a store the other day at a good price and it got me to thinkin maybe I could upgrade in brands and get the flattop as well for a little more money...I think that by the time I change out the upper and get a different scope for the one I have - I would probably have the same $ in it as I would with trading and upgrading? Any thoughts?
     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    No problem.
    Even Superman cannot focus on three different things at the same time.

    All you need to see clearly is the Front Sight.

    Let the rear aperture and target blur to whatever degree they want too.

    As long as the front sight is clear & sharp, the fuzzy aperture and target will take care of themselves automatically.

    That is the way even the best young eyes work too.

    rc
     
  15. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    How much are they asking for that Stag? I'm not saying that Stag isn't a good brand, but depending on the price, you may be able to get into something else for the same price that is more "milspec" and arguably better/more dependable.

    It's too bad that you're so far away. An upper swap only takes about an hour.
     
  16. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    $1050. I really liked the look and feel of the Stag 8. I'm going to a gun show now- I'll see if I see any thing else I really like and look at mounts, etc as well...
     
  17. Sky

    Sky Member

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    It's not easy getting old. I checked today on eye surgery. The permanent mono lens for your eyes cost about $4000 but supposedly last. The 15 ring lens are twice that much.
     
  18. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    Oh, you're looking at the piston job.
     
  19. Racinfan83

    Racinfan83 Member

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    Update - I talked to the guys from Black Rifle at the gunshow - and I am having them switch out my upper to a flat top. This should allow me the $ to go with a good scope. Hopefully that will make this whole deal easier and cheaper. When I get that back I will have to see about the scope and mounts.....but the main part of my issue is now getting fixed!
     
  20. Sky

    Sky Member

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    Ta Da!
     
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