Ar 15 Vs Ak 74

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gtmerkley

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To day my son joined the ranks of AR. owners and I joined the ranks of AK. owners. MY son buying a brand new AR. 15 Bushmaster in 5.56 I buying a brand new AK 74 tantel in 5.45. We have been arguing for years about which was best. We finally decided that there were good and bad points about each. So we each bought a new rifle and took them out and tested them side by side Here is what we found. As far as grouping they shot the same we each came up with one raged hole at 100 yards and no we didn't miss we used a built trap and every built was accounted for we shot from a table but no other rest just elbows resting on table. Inside our bullet trap we had the chamber wall lined with trauma simulation clay and a front target that simulated shooting through a car door . a wire reinforced glass front. And a plaster wall. so we could see the penetration through deferent material the first shot was with the AR.15 it penetrated every thing including the back of our bullet catcher using 75 gr prvi PartizanPPU match hollow point it made a small hole going in and coming out not much mushrooming here but the trauma clay wall chamber showed a good amount of disruption as it passed through this chamber both top and bottom was shattered in a straight line front to back. which would make for a bad wound through the body the estimated area damage in side the body would equal about 12 in. next came the 5.45 Tantels turn. using military armor piercing rounds the tantel round penetrated all material but did not penetrate the back of the bullet trap after getting through the cover material it seemed to break up in the chamber lined with trauma clay sending the fragment every where and smashing the hard clay past the limit that could be measured the entire 16 in square trauma chamber was decimated which would equal 16 inch's of a body around the wound would be turned to mush with spread fragments. So the 5.56 penetrated more then the 5.45 but the 74's round caused more damage to what would be the internal part of the body. The heavy non steal core bullet seamed to penetrate better then the steal core bullet. All ammo was new not some old stuff that had set around. The rifles were new right out of the box no modifications were done to them just pre fire cleaning and bore checking no modification to the ammo the AR 15 was The A 2 type with 20 in barrel we had no problem with ether gun both worked flawlessly I would not be afraid to depend on ether rifle I believe the built design is what makes or brakes a rifle and that is one thing the military or anyone needs to work on
 
BIG 45 you obviously arnt too good of a shot??? I couldn't make those shots but I have seen many do it while I was at the range.
 
The OP didn't say how many shots he fired to make a ragged hole. Making a ragged hole with 10 shots is one thing, making a ragged hole 10" across with a case is just a matter of shooting over and over and over. Even a 6MOA gun will make a ragged hole given enough ammo and time
 
I'll disregard the thread hijack and just say thanks to gtmerkely for the write up. I already have an AR and have been really considering a Tantal but haven't heard much about how they and their round perform. This was helpful.
 
BIG 45 you obviously arnt too good of a shot??? I couldn't make those shots but I have seen many do it while I was at the range.

BIG's shooting, your spelling, GT's post in total. It's so hard to know which is really the bigger problem.

Still, two guys went out and bought new rifles that they've wanted. They shot those rifles and are happy guys. Good for them.
 
I must admit the C I A 74's accuracy surprised me I have an sks that shoots a 5 MOA and an AK 47 that shoots a 3 MOA .I had a 91 that shot allover using Norma ammo but got some military surplus and now it shoots great. as for shooting one hole groups I have a hard time understanding the problem with this. I see in gun magazines guys shooting 1 to 2 moa and calling it accurate but everyone here would be ashamed of a gun that would do that. My dad grew up using ML guns one shot per squirrel he always shot them on the tip of the nose as otherwise it would ruin too much meat I finale got him to use a modern gun but he still shoots each shot like he only has one he thought me to do the same he told me instead of just sighting the rifle feel where the bullet is going to hit it is a kind of mind set. Visualize where that shot is going to hit and if your gun and ammo will do it every hole will cut the next or will go right through the same hole you just have to have confidence you can do it. I am not bragging. when you grow up in an area where the people hunt to live and a miss means no meat for supper your going to get a lot of guys that can out shoot me like my dad. and his dad could out shoot him
 
I can't even read the OP because it lacks any form of sentence structure or a basic paragraph system as well as punctuation including periods at the end of what seems to be a sentence to organize thoughts into different sections so each part can be separately examined as well as it being hard to go from one side of the page to the other without reading the same line twice because there is no sense of a break or easily recognizable number of lines in which I can determine which line I was on in reference to what I just read making it difficult to get past the first few lines which may be a personal problem but it still renders me too frustrated to answer any question or comment on any thought by the time i get done reading an OP that seems too long in the first place for what was being asked but ill never know because i didnt read it all.

Basically I'm saying you need to use paragraphs and punctuation so I don't pull my hair out. It's the internet, not kindergarden.
 
It could use a little cleaning up, but it is not that bad. C'mon.

I work with folks everyday who have frickin' college degrees who can't speak as well as the OP got his idea across, despite grammatical errors.

Give em a break. :)
 
Son of Gtmerkley

Gtmerkley's son here I am the shooter of the Bushmaster AR15 . I'm 17 years old and can attest to everything Gtmerkley has said. I am a target shooter going through thousands of rounds a year. One day I hope to shoot at matches and tournaments. I would have no reason to lie about another persons shooting capabilities. Besides any that owns/shoots an Ak47/Ak74 knows it can be highly accurate even more so with the right ammo.
 
Thanks for the report. Interesting test. Hope to read more of your adventures.
 
To the subject at hand, many people mistake the military 5.45x39 steel core for armor-piercing ammo.

It's not.
The 5.45x39 uses the Soviet 7N6-PS steel core bullet which has a blunt, MILD steel core.
Armor piercing bullets use a steel core that's very sharply pointed on the front end and is made of extremely hard steel.
The 7N6 is not considered to be an armor piercing bullet, although it does penetrate steel plate better than if it had a lead core.

Here's a sectioned 5.45x39 7N6-PS bullet:

Note the tapered blunt ended mild steel core.
Its surrounded by a very thin jacket of lead between the core and the outer mild steel jacket with a copper plated coating to prevent rust, and help lubricate the bullet during the feed cycle.
On top of the core is the lead cap, and the hollow nose cavity.
This is designed to move the center of gravity to the rear.
This makes the bullet very stable in flight, but extremely unstable when it hits.
This causes the bullet to tumble wildly when it hits, giving it the nickname in Afghanistan of the "poison bullet", or the "Devil's bullet".

PICT0001.jpg
 
I can't even read the OP because it lacks any form of sentence structure or a basic paragraph system as well as punctuation including periods at the end of what seems to be a sentence to organize thoughts into different sections so each part can be separately examined as well as it being hard to go from one side of the page to the other without reading the same line twice because there is no sense of a break or easily recognizable number of lines in which I can determine which line I was on in reference to what I just read making it difficult to get past the first few lines which may be a personal problem but it still renders me too frustrated to answer any question or comment on any thought by the time i get done reading an OP that seems too long in the first place for what was being asked but ill never know because i didnt read it all.



HA!!!
 
I have tempted to get one of the tantels because the ammo is soooo cheap. classic has them for 475 which aint bad but the ammo is 140 for a 1080 round tin.

Thank you for the range report friend.
 
Maybe those bullets were split by firing at the sharpened edge of a SOVIET BATTLE AXE !!!

The Soviets were too cheap to make battle axes. They used sharpened shovels.
Still pretty effective, especially when used by Spetznaz.

Actually, I'm a retired Master watchmaker/gunsmith and I sectioned the bullet using my old jeweler's "wire" saw.
 
008_3addon.jpg
 
Well, I believe you shot that well, so good shooting. And if you didn't really shoot that well, whatever, it's not like it matters to me that much.

Next time you shoot you should post pics for us.
 
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