AK or AR-15?

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javjacob said:
Optics don't belong on any battle rifle
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Weird how the Army, USMC, and even the DCM now disagree with you ... but Justin didn't say he was building a "battle rifle" or going to battle with his rifle, so you can rest easy there.



Anywhoo... Justin it looks like you've made your choice and I do think it is the clearly logical one. As much as I'd love to see further developments and experiments and one-off cool builds on the AK platform, it just isn't efficient to get from point "A" to point "B" with that design. Not when the AR path is pretty straight-ahead simple -- to the point of plug-and-play.

I would say just be a little careful with those super-heavy bullets for hunting. The lighter .224" bullets designed for proper expansion do a good job in hunting applications, and SOME of the heavy ones can, too. Just make sure you're keeping the velocity up to the speed you need to get the right expansion with those heavy bullets, at the range you're going to connect with the target. Check the current thread here for some good info on that: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=792033
 
shopping around, and wanting to base the rifle around 75-80 grain loads i found a FNH brand 20 inch government profile hammer forged barrel with 5.56 chamber, 1-7 twist and M4 feed ramps... i think thatll do what i want.. beats an RPK LMG barrel
 
Some of you guys have been watching too many nutnfancy special ops SHTF end of the world zombie apocalypse videos. Optics are for precision shots, battle rifles are not precision rifles. Battle rifles are designed to be 100% reliable in the worst and most brutal environments and optics don't meet that requirement like iron peep sights do. Also most gun battles take place at ranges of 100-300 yards.
Snipers is a whole different conversation but last I checked they weren't using M16's.

Guy has made up his mind already though so it doesn't really matter.
 
I think OP has made the right choice as to which of the 2 mentioned rifles to put optics on though. Optics and AK's just don't go together being the AK was introduced almost 70 years ago. Buy an AR and also keep the AK.
 
theres a reason most rifles retain their iron sights.. so should optics fail, they have backups.. absolutely nothing wrong with a rugged fixed 4x illuminated scope and backup irons
 
javjacob said:
Some of you guys have been watching too many nutnfancy special ops SHTF end of the world zombie apocalypse videos. Optics are for precision shots, battle rifles are not precision rifles. Battle rifles are designed to be 100% reliable in the worst and most brutal environments and optics don't meet that requirement like iron peep sights do. Also most gun battles take place at ranges of 100-300 yards.
Snipers is a whole different conversation but last I checked they weren't using M16's.
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I'll take an Aimpoint, Eotech or ACOG over iron sights for real work any day of the week. Optics are to make putting rounds on target faster or more accurately than with iron sights and there are plenty that are rugged enough for use on battle rifles. No harm in having zeroed iron sights as back up, but there are better options for primary use.
 
Some of you guys have been watching too many nutnfancy special ops SHTF end of the world zombie apocalypse videos. Optics are for precision shots, battle rifles are not precision rifles. Battle rifles are designed to be 100% reliable in the worst and most brutal environments and optics don't meet that requirement like iron peep sights do. Also most gun battles take place at ranges of 100-300 yards.
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I know. That's what's wrong with the Army and USMC. They listen way too much to nutnfancy.
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For some nameless, longwinded, rambling, supposed AirForce dude, he sure has changed the face of modern combat. ... I guess. :rolleyes:


Guess we'll all know who to blame when the hundreds of thousands of optics the US armed forces have fielded suddenly fail and they realize the folly of their ways.
 
justin22885 said:
shopping around, and wanting to base the rifle around 75-80 grain loads i found a FNH brand 20 inch government profile hammer forged barrel with 5.56 chamber, 1-7 twist and M4 feed ramps... i think thatll do what i want.. beats an RPK LMG barrel
Click to expand...

Where did you find that barrel for sale btw, I keep thinking my lightweight 16" AR needs a Gov profile 20" buddie. I think you are on the most logical track to accomplish your goals with this build.
 
Some of you guys have been watching too many nutnfancy special ops SHTF end of the world zombie apocalypse videos. Optics are for precision shots, battle rifles are not precision rifles. Battle rifles are designed to be 100% reliable in the worst and most brutal environments and optics don't meet that requirement like iron peep sights do. Also most gun battles take place at ranges of 100-300 yards.
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Since pretty much every 1st world country issues optics to their soldiers as standard issue. The Steyr AUG pretty much can only be used with its optic, the Tavor uses optics as standard. I blame the Brits for issuing the SUIT sight for the FAL.

BSW
 
so heres a question.. A2 style government contour chrome line parkerized barrel, or an A1 contour nitrided barrel that uses .625" gas blocks?... keep in mind i'll be making some high quality handloads for it, and my accuracy goals are at least 2MOA
 
Pick your profile based on how long you want to carry it for versus how long you want to shoot it for. Lots of carrying/low volume shooting, get the light profile to save weight. Lots of bench shooting/lots of rounds, get a heavier barrel. Accuracy between two barrels of equal quality will be the same regardless of profile, you just might have to take more breaks shooting the lighter one.

A chrome lined barrel will tend to be less accurate than a stainless or melonite treated barrel. A melonite treated barrel will have the same wear resistance as a chrome lined with generally better accuracy and easier cleaning.
 
is there really any advantage to a government profile over an A1 though?.. area under the handguard is pretty much the same.. what does it accomplish to make the front end of the barrel heavier but make the rifle needlessly more nose-heavy?
 
"Originally Posted by javjacob View Post
Those pics are all red dots... not scopes. Big difference."

Where do you come up with this stuff? ACOG's and other magnified scopes have been in common use with US combat forces since the first gulf war.
 
I state my opinion that optics don't belong on any battle rifle and everyone throws a temper tantrum. The AK wasn't designed for the option to add optics. The AR isn't a battle rifle.

By optics I assume we are talking about scopes since the definition of optics is...
the scientific study of sight and the behavior of light, or the properties of transmission and deflection of other forms of radiation.

The OP never specified though. Doesn't matter either way for the AK though as any optics really don't have a good way to mount solid the rifle.
The AR technically isn't a battle rifle as its actually a civilian version of the M16 which is a battle rifle.
 
You're just regurgitating crap you've read on the Internet. You stated yourself that you believe most engagements occur between 100 and 300 yards. If you don't think an ACOG is a tremendous advantage over iron sights at those distances to engage combatants that appear, fire, and disappear, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, you've clearly never done it. There is so little difference between an M16 and an AR15, stating the AR15 isn't a battle rifle is just splitting hairs.
 
Just so we can lighten the mood a bit, just wanted to say my new lady friend prefers the AK, I myself am more of an AR and parrot kinda guy.
 

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LOL the 100-300 yards is something that has been said on multiple gun forums for many years. "You've clearly never done it" coming from a guy who doesn't even know me... Have you ever done it? :uhoh: I am getting quite a laugh out of everyone blowing steam out of their ears. Calm down on the temper tantrums. The AR15 isn't a battle rifle.
I didn't know there were so many people on here who get into war zone battles?
 
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Deog said:
Just so we can lighten the mood a bit, just wanted to say my new lady friend prefers the AK, I myself am more of an AR and parrot kinda guy.
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i prefer the AK as well, but it would be so much work to actually get what i want out of it and at the end of the day i dont think id actually get all i want out of it regardless

right now im trying to determine the best barrel contour to go for, id like to find a 20 inch nitrided 1-7 barrel with anywhere between an A1 and medium contour to it (see no point in an HBAR or bull barrel for anything thats not a dedicated match rifle)
 
If you're not carrying it or doing a lot of offhand shooting, the medium contour is fine. I'd go with the lighter profile for lots of carry or offhand shooting.

BSW
 
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