AK or AR-15?

[Jesse H]

so, this pretty much means i'll be stuck with two-piece screw together floated if i keep the A2 front sight

Daniel Defense Omega X and Centurion Arms C4. I have the C4 on my duty rifle and have been very happy with it.

And if it's a "go to" rifle I highly recommend Aimpoint. Leave it on for a few years, no worries about one more thing to turn on.

 

[justin22885]

Daniel Defense Omega X and Centurion Arms C4. I have the C4 on my duty rifle and have been very happy with it.

And if it's a "go to" rifle I highly recommend Aimpoint. Leave it on for a few years, no worries about one more thing to turn on.

ive discussed the issues with this in another thread, due to astigmatism red dots come out looking distorted to me, its one of the reason for making a switch to AR-15 so i will have a much broader selection of sights and mounts to bypass this issue

 

[justin22885]

anyone else know a better source for a 20 inch A1/pencil contour barrel with 1 in 7 and nitrided finish?

 

[MistWolf]

Faxon make a top quality barrel
http://faxonfirearms.com/20-gunner-5-56-nato-rifle-length-4150-qpq/

After all the years I've been shooting optics, I've yet to need iron sights if the optic was of good quality. Get a low profile gas block, a free float tube and don't worry about a front sight. Shooting the rifle will reveal if you need BUIS or not. If so, you can add them later. I think a 1-6x optic would be a good choice for a lightweight 20" AR

 

[justin22885]

Faxon make a top quality barrel
http://faxonfirearms.com/20-gunner-5-56-nato-rifle-length-4150-qpq/

After all the years I've been shooting optics, I've yet to need iron sights if the optic was of good quality. Get a low profile gas block, a free float tube and don't worry about a front sight. Shooting the rifle will reveal if you need BUIS or not. If so, you can add them later. I think a 1-6x optic would be a good choice for a lightweight 20" AR

thats an interesting barrel.. in most cases 1-8" twist is cutting it pretty close for the heavier bullets i want to shoot.. hard to say when theyd finally destabilize, but hopefully id get the 600 yard goal out of it.. i think the velocity from the 20" barrel will help with stabilizing heavier bullets.. im hoping i can fire tracers out of the 1 in 8" 20" barrel too, hard to say, but im willing to go with that particular barrel and give it a try.. it seems to have the perfect general purpose contour.. so, consider that a decision made

about the sights, i dont think i want to go with a variable zoom optic because id like to keep the sight as simple, compact, and light as possible.. so i want a fixed 4x with illuminated etched reticle which means i will need sights i can quickly transition to for close range, inside 100-200.. iron sights with a see through mount would work, alternatively an off-set mounted RMR sized red dot should work well enough with my astigmatism at close range, especially when i get it corrected, and i could even offset iron sights so the optic can remain mounted low and i can simply rotate the rifle to use the irons for close range

so yes, i will go with a pinned low-profile gas block, im sure i can find some made, or i could just get an A1 .625" sight tower and grind off the sight itself, bonus of that move is i could keep the bayonet lug off... you know, make my rifle that much more lethal according to the anti-gun community

 

[readyeddy]

Correcting your astigmatism is a good idea. Glasses with progressive lenses will correct far, intermediate and near vision. The intermediate distance should sharpen up that red dot.

 

[justin22885]

that is true, but the optics issue is only one small reason for switching to an AR, the other is what im looking to do with 5.56 dictates barrel selection not available in AKs without custom contouring one myself

so a question.. how many of you own a 20" AR that isnt designed to be a match/competition rifle?.. how many of you have decided on 20" for a go-to military role rifle?... and why?.. im liking the 20 inch for the higher velocity which will extend the range and performance of the heavier ammunition, id like to know why those who run with 20" rifles do so

 

[briansmithwins]

No 20" AR but I do like the 20" barrel on the Steyr AUG. That rifle balances very nicely with that barrel and a loaded magazine.

I do appreciate the extra velocity vs a 16" rifle.

BSW

 

[justin22885]

how much extra weight are we talking about between a 16" government contour barrel and a 20" lightweight?.. probably negligible difference in weight, only a few inches more length, but a noticeable increase in energy and effective range of the ammo.. seems like a fair tradeoff for anyone in a rural environment

 

[briansmithwins]

I'd go light with either 16" or 20". The govt profile puts the weight exactly where I don't want it.

BSW

 

[justin22885]

I'd go light with either 16" or 20". The govt profile puts the weight exactly where I don't want it.

BSW

thats why im liking the faxon barrel, government profile up to the gas block, pencil barrel thereafter, seems like the perfect contour

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

dont worry, i seriously doubt this will end up an AR vs AK thread, my questions a bit more detailed and specific than that



so, ive mentioned before with the astigmatism my need to get better optics and the difficulty of finding decent mounts for the AK, as some of the best optics are made with built-in picatinny bases that would mount the sight pretty high on an AK or require a dogleg rail i do not trust to hold zero, this has had me considering an AR



the other thing is ive been on a search for a new caliber to standardize for the majority of my uses.. doing a lot of research i've found i REALLY like the ballistics and low costs of the 5.56 with 75-80 grain bullets such as hornady 75gr HPBT, sierra 77 grain OTM, and even the new 77 grain sierra TMK bullets.. problem is my current 5.56 AK has a 1 in 9 twist



there are three ways to get an AK with a 1 in 7 twist as kvar makes barrels, they are however for a 23mm trunnion, my options include machining out the 22mm AK-74 trunnion, turning down the 23mm barrel shank, or combining parts from a 7.62 AK and a 5.45 AK (7.62 kit with an AK-74 bolt and carrier, alternative the 7.62 carrier may work with a yugo 5.56 bolt) and then i could make up the differences in trunnions and magazine wells with an AR-15 mag adapter



considering how much work this is, and that my astigmatism at this point in time dictates a changes in optics i cant help but think i should build an AR-15 instead



thoughts? comments?

Have you ever asked a question on any of the forums you frequent without already knowing the outcome. No offense, but it seems like anytime you ask for feedback you seem to be already leading in the direction you eventually end up in. You seem to have already have all the answers to all of the questions you ask and push back anytime anyone provides an alternative point of view. Why not skip the middle man and declare victory from the get-go?

 

[justin22885]

Have you ever asked a question on any of the forums you frequent without already knowing the outcome. No offense, but it seems like anytime you ask for feedback you seem to be already leading in the direction you eventually end up in. You seem to have already have all the answers to all of the questions you ask and push back anytime anyone provides an alternative point of view. Why not skip the middle man and declare victory from the get-go?

if i knew the outcome, i wouldnt ask the question but sometimes you have to get an opposing opinion in, even if you dont necessarily agree with it for the sake of discussion to cover all options.. in fact id still much prefer something OTHER than an AR-15 because i still generally dislike them but the circumstances show me really no other viable alternative at this point

any other alternatives besides the two mentioned is a mini-14 (which i can stand even less than ARs) or something thats $1500+

 

[MistWolf]

thats an interesting barrel.. in most cases 1-8" twist is cutting it pretty close for the heavier bullets i want to shoot..

The 1:8 will shoot the longer bullets just fine

about the sights, i dont think i want to go with a variable zoom optic because id like to keep the sight as simple, compact, and light as possible.. so i want a fixed 4x...

Scope makers have variables down to a science. They are simpler and lighter than trying to go with a scope & offsets. There is no practical reason, other than cost, to chose a fixed 4 over a low power variable. Add in the cost of offset BUIS and you've saved no money at all.

For now, just build the basic rifle and shoot it. You can always add accessories like BUIS later. You might even find out that, for your purposes, BUIS and certain other accessories aren't needed at all

 

[Gtscotty]

i prefer the AK as well, but it would be so much work to actually get what i want out of it and at the end of the day i dont think id actually get all i want out of it regardless

right now im trying to determine the best barrel contour to go for, id like to find a 20 inch nitrided 1-7 barrel with anywhere between an A1 and medium contour to it (see no point in an HBAR or bull barrel for anything thats not a dedicated match rifle)

Check out the Faxon Firearms Gunner profile barrel, QPQ nitride finished barrel with a contour between A2 and pencil.

http://faxonfirearms.com/20-gunner-5-56-nato-rifle-length-4150-qpq/


Edit: Didn't read far enough through the optics argument to see you were already on to Faxon. I'm thinking about building another 20in upper for my extra lower, and I really like the idea of the Gunner profile. My last 20in was a heavy profile, and just added too much weight to a rifle that's supposed to be relatively light and easy to tote around. I have a PSA ultralight 16in upper on my other lower, and am sold on lightweight AR's.

 

[justin22885]

cool thing about that gunner profile is its about half a pound lighter than an A2 barrel.. figure mine will be for the most part an M16A4-esque rifle which the M16A4 is just a hair over 7lbs, the gunner profile barrel will knock it down to about 6.5lbs, figure a lighter low pro gas block, just a simple free float tube handguard..

without the optic id be looking at a 6-6.5lb 20" rifle with the accuracy and the ammo to reach out to 600 yards.. thats a lot of distance, a lot of firepower in a very lightweight package

about the free float tube, im open to suggestions in this department, i do not believe i need any of the slim keymod or mlok rails, but something like a YHM tube or an apex tube is what im considering to put on it.. any thoughts on that?

 

[Ignition Override]

justin22885: You might have mentioned an AK-74 in "5.56".

Weren't all of them supposed to be assembled with barrels in 5.45, other than a limited number assembled by Century Arms with 5.56 barrels, which the buyers were not aware of?

Century actually Knew that some of the Tantals had the wrong barrels, and shipped them anyway. Bad keyholes in targets using 5.45 ammo. The guy on "The Military Arms Channel" on Youtube was also deceived. He was probably the only buyer of a Century Polish Tantal to have received a Free replacement barrel in 5.45. Maybe because of the publicity on his YT Channel?

 

[justin22885]

justin22885: You might have mentioned an AK-74 in "5.56".

Weren't all of them supposed to be assembled with barrels in 5.45, other than a limited number assembled by Century Arms with 5.56 barrels, which the buyers were not aware of?

Century actually Knew that some of the Tantals had the wrong barrels, and shipped them anyway. Bad keyholes in targets using 5.45 ammo. The guy on "The Military Arms Channel" on Youtube was also deceived.

i built myself on a bulgarian AK-74 parts kit, all numbers matching in seemingly unissued condition with a 5.56mm 1 in 9 twist barrel designed for such conversions, bulgarian circle 10 mags in 5.56 fit the '74 magazine well, besides the barrel and magazines the only other modification that i did was buy a spare extractor that i filed down the inside of to compensate for the slightly smaller rim diameter of 5.56

so a barrel, mags, and slight extractor modification is all you need to convert a '74 to 5.56...i WOULD have just built in 5.45 because i really like 5.45 and with heavier bullets it has the same useful case capacity as 5.56 but with more taper and better reliability, also ammunition (7n6) surplus was stupid cheap at the time but i had this gut feeling something was going to happen to 7n6 supply line in the future so i built it as a 5.56.. about a year later the 7n6 ban happened

 

[Gtscotty]

Heads up, 10% off of Faxonfirearms.com stuff till the 8th.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/01/10-off-at-faxon/

 

[TheRealJQP]

so, ive mentioned before with the astigmatism my need to get better optics and the difficulty of finding decent mounts for the AK, as some of the best optics are made with built-in picatinny bases that would mount the sight pretty high on an AK or require a dogleg rail i do not trust to hold zero, this has had me considering an AR

Yep, I found out about the "starburst" effect for people with astigmatisms when I mounted my first RDS. Peep rear sight keeps the dot clear, at least that's what I read, and that's what I've experienced. I found that the "medium" UTG riser gives absolute co-witness with a Bushnell TRS-25 and Magpul BUIS. Works for me.

I would go AR. In fact, I have gone AR, three times. Much more modular (can get everything I want without smithing), better prices, more accurate, lighter round that does more damage, better optics, longer sight radius, etc. The Law folding stock adapter pretty much killed the last reason I had to look at AKs, their folding stocks. Only reason I want one now is so I know how to shoot with one just in case.

Optics don't belong on any battle rifle.

? Tell it to the US military, I guess.

Some of you guys have been watching too many nutnfancy special ops SHTF end of the world zombie apocalypse videos. Optics are for precision shots, battle rifles are not precision rifles. Battle rifles are designed to be 100% reliable in the worst and most brutal environments and optics don't meet that requirement like iron peep sights do. Also most gun battles take place at ranges of 100-300 yards.

I guess we've been listening to way too many soldiers, would be a more accurate criticism. Optics are for various things. RDS are for rapid target acquisition. Nothing's 100% reliable except death. If an optic becomes a liability, remove it and go to iron sights. My guess is the gas tube is more vulnerable than your typical optic.

I state my opinion that optics don't belong on any battle rifle and everyone throws a temper tantrum.

No temper tantrum, just want to know what ur smoking.

Correcting your astigmatism is a good idea. Glasses with progressive lenses will correct far, intermediate and near vision. The intermediate distance should sharpen up that red dot.

True, but 1) glasses can be lost or destroyed, and 2) vision degrades over time and prescriptions lose efficacy. I think a rear peep sight and absolute co-witness are cheap peace of mind.