AR hates Tula

[speaksoftly]

AR hates WOLF (thought it was Tula...was mistaken)

I have a friend who has an AR-15 and is tight on money. He purchased about 400 rounds of Tula ammo (per my advice) and his rifle will NOT feed the stuff to save his life. He gets casings stuck in the barrel and the action will not cycle the rounds after each shot. He put a mag of my Remington brass through the rifle and it shot like a dream. The question is, other than Tula what would be a good CHEAP round for this guy to buy that will feed reliably but also not break the bank? Thanks

-Marcos

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Federal has 100 round packs of Brass .223 at Walmart.

 

[nerfsrule2]

I bought a bunch of the Tula at Wal Mart..($4.99 per 20 rounds...) I ran it with one Mag and I got a Failure to feed in about 1 of five rounds... I switched Mags to an H&K no problems what so ever.. Try using another Mag .. BTW the rifle was a S&W mp 15T...

 

[speaksoftly]

He's using P-mags. IMHO they don't get any better than that.

 

[68wj]

Check out some of the online guys too if there is nothing outside wal-mart available locally. palmettostatearmory.com and aim surplus have good reputations.

FWIW, I have had good results with the stuff when I don't feel like picking up brass.

 

[nerfsrule2]

AOK...If I was in your position I would Buy the ammo from him..and Let him find another..You will have another 400 rounds to shoot and your friend will have another reason to call you a true friend...

 

[wnycollector]

My Del-ton non-CL 20" had six stuck cases out of 100 rounds with Tula 55gr FMJ. It runs 100% with PMC, american eagle and black hills brass cased ammo and brown and silver bear steel case ammo.

My favorite range ammo is Silver Bear 62gr HP. I went though 500 rounds of it last month between my 2 AR's...not a single problem and nice consistent 3moa groups at 100 yards.

 

[Kwanger]

Have him try some Brown Bear; it's the same price as Tula but the better round IMO. Have him ensure that rifle's chamber is thoroughly brushed and cleaned-important when running steel cased ammo.

 

[Evil Monkey]

If your rifle can't extract steel cased rounds, it's because the chamber is too tight and most likely 223.

Combat rifles like the ar15 are NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE 223 CHAMBERS. They are supposed to have 5.56mm NATO chambers, which not only have the correct throat geometry to fire NATO pressure ammo, but the chamber base and shoulder dimensions are also wider to aid in extraction for high pressure NATO brass cased ammo and also aids in the reliable extraction of steel cased ammo.

What kind of upper receiver group does your friend have?

 

[Rshooter]

I am with nerfsrule2, buy the ammo from the guy and let him find some that his rifle will feed.

 

[stubbicatt]

Hmmm...

My Yugo M95A ran Tula just fine. Shot to the same general point of aim as brass cased ammo and was not terribly expensive either.

It was unfortunately very sooty ammo.

Man. My girlfriend wants one of those AR pogo sticks and I just can't talk her out of one. I wonder whether I were to provide the steel ammo and she were to get a whole lotta jams would she decide she wants something better like a Mini 14.

I mean really... if it don't go bang and cycle reliably with whatever ammo I feed it, what good is an AR15?

 

[W.E.G.]

Tula is the same factory that makes Wolf ammo.
If your AR doesn't like Wolf, it won't like Tula either.

I wouldn't condemn the rifle because it won't shoot that Russian junk.
I don't load my AR with cases filled with match-heads either.

I learned my lesson about Wolf in AR's long ago.
Never again.

 

[Wahoo95]

check the chamber and upgrade the extractor. If that doesn't work get rid of it. There is no reason to own a rifle that won't run on a broad range of ammo from cheap steel cased to match brass cased. I have no need for any gun with a picky appetite in my collection. What good is a rifle like that on the day when cheap steel cased ammo is all you can get your hands on.

 

[d2wing]

Yes check the extractor spring. If it has a blue insert he needs a spring upgrade. Sometimes just a #60 o-ring over the spring will do it. A heavier buffer and/ or stronger buffer spring might help as well.

 

[W.E.G.]

This is what steel-case ammo (lacquer AND poly) do in the two AR’s from my collection.

Extractor ripped right through the case rim, the cases were stuck so bad.

In each instance the chambers were clean before shooting started.

This happened after 15 or 20 rounds.

Cases had to be driven out of the chamber with a cleaning rod.
_________________________________

 

[speaksoftly]

WEG, that is EXACTLY what happened in the end down to the cleaning rod.

All else, I was mistaken...it was Wolf.

 

[nathan]

Thats why im eyeing on the ARmalite 20 inch standard. They said it has the 5.56 chamber , chromed line barrel too.

 

[Sky]

Steel case has different expansion than brass. Several manufactures say do not use it "period" in a non-chrome lined barrel. There are a couple of threads around here discussing this very topic. Would honestly help if we knew the make of the upper.

 

[Evil Monkey]

Thats why im eyeing on the ARmalite 20 inch standard. They said it has the 5.56 chamber , chromed line barrel too

Be careful, some manufacturers lie or have chambers designed to handle 5.56mm nato pressure ammo (larger freebore and longer leade) but the chamber dimensions in relation to the casing is rather tight. Some manufacturers may find tight chambers to be acceptable, while others don't and will ream the chambers to the largest tolerances for the best performance.

for every body else complaining about steel cased ammo, I refer you to post #9.

If your rifle can't extract steel cased rounds, it's because the chamber is too tight and most likely 223.

Combat rifles like the ar15 are NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE 223 CHAMBERS. They are supposed to have 5.56mm NATO chambers, which not only have the correct throat geometry to fire NATO pressure ammo, but the chamber base and shoulder dimensions are also wider to aid in extraction for high pressure NATO brass cased ammo and also aids in the reliable extraction of steel cased ammo.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Be careful, some manufacturers lie or have chambers designed to handle 5.56mm nato pressure ammo (larger freebore and longer leade) but the chamber dimensions in relation to the casing is rather tight. Some manufacturers may find tight chambers to be acceptable, while others don't and will ream the chambers to the largest tolerances for the best performance.

for every body else complaining about steel cased ammo, I refer you to post #9.

well since you seem to have it nailed down, i refer you to post #2.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Actually, I work at walmart, and typically in my store (YMMV) the The brands stocked are Remington, Winchester, Federal, and Tula.

In terms of price, Remington>Winchester>Federal>Tula. The American brass stuff is fine, but some guns, (The AR15 platform) can have trouble with it.

Honestly, I'd research online prices+shipping first. Federal is a fine product, but I'm sure there is cheaper brass stuff out there. However, convenience is nice.

 

[FlyinBryan]

cant say how good their loaded federal is, but the brass is good. i pick up lots of it and reload it.

 

[TonyAngel]

5.56 vs a .223 chamber is not the issue. The Tula ammo is loaded to .223 spec anyway. The expansion/contraction rate of the steel cases differs from that of brass, making the ejection process more sensitive to timing. Having a chrome lined chamber does help because it's slicker.

The two most common problems with shooting the steel cased stuff are stuck cases and short stroking and I don't think I've ever seen a case of a rifle suffering from both. In the case of the short stroking, if could be because of gas leaks, less that ideal gas rings or the rifle being overgassed just enough to slow the cycling process down to a point where the bolt just doesn't have the momentum to toss the spent case.

I haven't seen it all, but in the rifles that I've worked on that were suffering from stuck cases, it was because of overgassing. The gas port in the barrel being drilled larger than spec. In an overgassed rilfe, the bolt is unlocking to soon and trying to eject a casing that hasn't contracted yet. The easiest thing to try is to slow the ejection process down a bit by adding weight to the ejection system. Try a heavier buffer. If you have a semi auto bolt carrier, try a full auto bolt carrier. In extreme cases, I've been able to get rifles running by using a clamp on gas block and choking off some of the gas. Personally, if I put something together that gives me this sort of trouble, I'll yank the barrel and get another. It's easier than trying to diagnose the problem and potentially cheaper in the end.

Shooting steel cased ammo is a great economical way to enjoy your AR. Unfortunately, some manufacturers do over gas their rifles to insure reliability with brass cased ammo, which a bit of overgassing can do.

What make is the upper? When you shot the Remington ammo out of it, what was the ejection pattern like? Was it ejecting the brass forward at the 1:00 position. Brass being thrown forward is generally an indication that the rifle is over gassed. If you have ejection at around the 3:00 position, that's perfect and you shouldn't be having problems with the steel cases ammo.

I subscribe to the school of thought that an AR that won't run on all ammo has something wrong with it, but if your friend is willing to live with it, I'd try some Silver Bear.

 

[Evil Monkey]

5.56 vs a .223 chamber is not the issue

It is a chamber issue.

The 5.56mm NATO chamber is wider than the 223 chamber from the base to the shoulder.

A wider chamber will allow for reliable extraction for all major types of 223/5.56mm ammo. This is magnified with longer gas systems than the carbine length gas system. A tight, out of spec chamber will not handle certain types of ammunition. This is especially well documented with ar15's of various brands.

 

[TonyAngel]

I've seen quite a few ARs with 5.56 chambers fail to properly cycle steel cased .223, especially if they are not chrome lined. It's a gas issue.

Evil, are you saying that a 5.56 chamber is wider in the body of the case than a .223? If that's what you are saying, you are wrong. There is no difference between a 5.56 and .223 chamber. There is no difference between a 5.56 and .223 brass. The differences between the the .223 and 5.56 are in the free bore diameter, leade and angle of the throat.