AR or AKs

[BevrFevr]

This is the dilema, Mom's husband has an AR with reliablilty problems (imagine that). I have two AKs that are 100% and always have been(imagine that).

He wants to get an AK and I sort of want an AR. Should I offer to trade him my AKs and all my accessories and ammo and such plus some cash for his AR?

Can ARs be made AK reliable? I had a cz 75 I was about to throw in a river, changed one spring and it is better than perfect now. Could this be done to and AR? I think it is a Colt if that matters. He has tried lots of mags and is ex army so I assume he knows how to clean and maintian it.

I'm not here to slam AR reliablilty but they do seem to have a reputation that has lasted almost 50 years.

give me your thoughts -bevr

 

[lycanthrope]

Yes. All my AR's run all the time.

The first place I check is the magazines and ammo. Next, make sure the gas key is tight.

What's the malfunction?

 

[BevrFevr]

my mom used a technical term

she said it "jams".

What that actually means? I have no idea.

 

[Geno]

AR "Problems"

AR problems are few. The original "problems" were more a manifestation of the coating that used to be placed on thhe ball powder. That stopped, also stopped the problems.

In terms of design, the AR is extraordinary reliable. I have friends with Colts, Bushmasters, DMPS, etc., etc. They simply run, and run... They are like the "Energizer Bunny" of rifles.

I do not intend to slam AKs, or they too are the other extraordinary rifle. For me, I liek the AR for the ammunition. A slight edge in accuracy and reach-out-and-touch the BG at distance.

For ME, I would keep the AR. But, that is just me.

Doc2005

 

[BevrFevr]

Well Doc that is why I want an AR too...

But this rifle has never seen any of that powder from the 60's and it has problems and is not like the energizer bunny.

I just want to know If I should make him an offer and have some expectations of fixing the AR if he takes me up on it. He may just reject the offer outright.

 

[Titus]

Reliability aside, let's get some specs on what you're trading and what you're trading for to see if it's a good trade money-wise.

 

[MechAg94]

I would say you need to take a range trip with him. Let him shoot your AK and you can try his AR. See what you think the problems are. You can also see what his cleaning habits are and see what ammo and mags he uses.

In general, I would want to keep my reliable rifle. I might want to buy his AR as well.

What kind of AR's are they? What kind of AK do you have?

 

[Coronach]

I keep hearing about ARs jamming. With the exception of my .22 upper, which was a jammomatic for the first 100 rounds or so, I can't recall the last time I witnessed one fail to function. Now, moving from the general to the specific, we'll need more info to diagnose this problem. I'm willing to bet that it can be made to run just fine, but no one will know for sure without more info.

Make?

Model?

Ammo?

Type of malfunction?

Type of magazines?

Age of the rifle?

He has tried lots of mags and is ex army so I assume he knows how to clean and maintian it.

The mag issue was a good one to check, but has he tried many different types of mags, or just different examples of the same kind? There are some out-of-spec mags out there that are all pretty much junk. And having worked with some former military types, never assume that they know how to clean, or work, a weapon. That's like assuming all cops can shoot (and I know, cuz I are one. ).

Mike

 

[Stinger]

I have never seen an AR jam. That being said, all of the ones that I have seen have been quality models.

I have witnessed mag problems. But they are probably operator problems, seeing as how the magazine wasn't fully inserted (30 round mag, topped off, need a solid butt slap to go home fully.)

The AR is the most overyly dissed firearm in the industry, bar-none.

Stinger

 

[10-Ring]

I have limited experience w/ both but more rounds through an AK than AR. That said, I prefer the AR...For me it is more reliable, quicker on target and more accurate than the AK

 

[Metapotent]

The best feeling is when you're out shooting with friends, they all have AKs that they think are so grand. Then you use your AR and you outshoot them big time hitting targets they don't even ATTEMPT to shoot, and in much more rapid succession.

Then they claim that they "don't even want an AR" because AKs are "so much more reliable". Then their guns jam and misfire on them numerous times while you keep a steady rythm of firing, and hitting targets with your "unreliable" AR...

Edit: By that time they are thinking of another excuse to rag on ARs and glorify the AK..which will usually amount to "ARs are ugly" or something childish along those lines.

 

[ny32182]

If I were you I wouldn't trade known good rifle(s) for a possibly problematic one until you are able to determine exactly why he is having problems and how much it will cost to fix them.

Basically, you need more info to make a decision.

 

[GTSteve03]

Ask yourself why you want the AR first, I guess.

Is it because you want to shoot a tiny 22 caliber projectile as opposed to a twice-as-massive 30 caliber round?

Do you want to hear a "SPROING" every time you fire your shot as opposed to a nice BOOM?

Would you rather have a gun with a gas system that's never been used in any other major country's battle rifle? Or one that's been copied multiple times around the world?

And I guess last would you really want to trade a gun you know is 100% reliable for one you know isn't?

 

[lamazza]

I have one of each and I would glady trade my AK + another for another AR

 

[Pilot]

I have both and have had good experiences with both, but in the end the only interesting guns are accurate ones. That being said, I have a couple of AK's in 5.45x39 that rival my AR's for accuracy.

 

[Metapotent]

GTSteve03 said:

Is it because you want to shoot a tiny 22 caliber projectile as opposed to a twice-as-massive 30 caliber round?

You mean those tiny .22 caliber projectiles that are currently the most used small arm cartridge among the worlds advanced western militaries? You mean the projecticle that can reliably hit targets 300m further away than that particular .30 caliber round can? Hmm... theres no use of having a larger round when you can't hit your target with it. Besides, it is ridiculous for you to judge the rifle based on the cartridge, because the AR has been, and can be chambered in MANY different rounds. I have an AR in 7.62x39, 5.56, 7.62 NATO, and I have uppers for 6.8mm, and .243 winchester. But in my experience the 5.56 is so much more accurate and far reaching that even if the .308 caliber russian cartridge has more stopping power (which can be disputed) it means nothing because of the pure inaccuracy and short range of the russian round.

Do you want to hear a "SPROING" every time you fire your shot as opposed to a nice BOOM?

Having a quiter round is a good trait. Besides, how does the NOISE of your rifle help you HIT YOUR TARGET.

Would you rather have a gun with a gas system that's never been used in any other major country's battle rifle? Or one that's been copied multiple times around the world?

First of all, the AR-15 gas sytem has been adopted into MANY countries rifles, for you to suggest otherwise is a blatant parade of your lack of knowledge. Besides, who cares what gas system has been used by large conscripted revolutionary militaries that were largely composed of uneducated peasants? The reason the AK was developed that way is because the people who would use it were illiterate, uneducated, and poorly trained.

And I guess last would you really want to trade a gun you know is 100% reliable for one you know isn't?

In case you are even worse than I thought.. The problems with reliability in the AR have been addressed and fixed. The AK however is NOT 100% reliable, and unless you want to pretend otherwise...many people have found that the the AR is superior in EVERY OTHER ASPECT, and some people find that the AR is actually MORE reliable making it the better choice, period.

I have alot of experience with both ARs and AKs and I have found the AR to be SO MUCH more accurate and ergonomic that the very slight edge in reliability in the AK means absolutely jack----.

 

[DougW]

I would not base my opinion on either rifle based only on what you read here. You will always find someone who has more knowlege that Stoner or Kalishnikov ever thought about having. Check out ar15.com. There are a lot of opinions on both systems there. Stay away from the falfiles.com. Your brain will melt. Then descide on what you like. I have 5 AR's and all mine are 100% reliable. So is my L1A1. I had a Maadi AR, worked everytime I pulled the trigger. My M1 is not totally reliable, but I am working on that. All my Enfields are also totally reliable. And my Glocks all work. What does that mean? I take care of my weapons my way to please me. Your mileage will vary. Good luck and have some fun with this.

 

[grimjaw]

I acknowledge that 9 out of 10 AR pattern rifles are more accurate, or can be made so, than an AK pattern rifles. Most of the ARs I see at the range actually don't get fired that much. The guys bring them out, sight them in, and then it's boring 1" group after 1" group. Then they sit them on the bench and pimp them like cars at a car show.

I haven't seen many problems with ARs at the range in the two years that I've been going. Maybe they clean their guns more often than I do, I don't know.

I've never handled an AR that I liked, but I've never handled one for an extended period. Personally, I just like throwing lead downrange Commie style ("what we lack in quality, we make up for in quantity, comrade!")

jmm

 

[mtnbkr]

. Most of the ARs I see at the range actually don't get fired that much. The guys bring them out, sight them in, and then it's boring 1" group after 1" group. Then they sit them on the bench and pimp them like cars at a car show.

I didn't do much "pimping" with my AR this weekend. I did put 240 rounds through it at various distances ranging from 25yds to 100yds with targets as boring as 12" "dots" on paper, filled and taped coffee cans, and old spray paint cans.

Chris

 

[grimjaw]

I didn't do much "pimping" with my AR this weekend.

My experience with them only covers two years and two ranges, so I don't think it's indicative.

jmm

 

[GTSteve03]

Metapotent elucidated:

You mean the projecticle that can reliably hit targets 300m further away than that particular .30 caliber round can? Hmm... theres no use of having a larger round when you can't hit your target with it.

At the ranges you are talking about, 300+m, that 22 caliber projectile has less stopping power than most 9mm handguns. At least up close, where it matters, the .30 cal will hit harder and penetrate more cover to get the job done.

Besides, it is ridiculous for you to judge the rifle based on the cartridge, because the AR has been, and can be chambered in MANY different rounds. I have an AR in 7.62x39, 5.56, 7.62 NATO, and I have uppers for 6.8mm, and .243 winchester. But in my experience the 5.56 is so much more accurate and far reaching that even if the .308 caliber russian cartridge has more stopping power (which can be disputed) it means nothing because of the pure inaccuracy and short range of the russian round.

Uh, energy can't be disputed. Whether or not a round with greater energy will be more likely to stop someone can, but then you're going against 100+ years of hunters who know that a bigger round is needed to put a big creature down fast.

Speaking of inaccuracy, why is the most accurate bench rest cartridge, the 6mmPPC, based off of the "pure inaccuracy" of the 7.62x39 round?

First of all, the AR-15 gas sytem has been adopted into MANY countries rifles, for you to suggest otherwise is a blatant parade of your lack of knowledge. Besides, who cares what gas system has been used by large conscripted revolutionary militaries that were largely composed of uneducated peasants? The reason the AK was developed that way is because the people who would use it were illiterate, uneducated, and poorly trained.

Oh, please inform me what rifles those might be? I'm coming up short here.

FN FAL, FN FNC? Nope. G3, G36? Nope. SA80? Nope. FAMAS? Nope. SIG-550? Nope. Steyr AUG? Still no. And then we have the Galil, Valmet, and Vectors are all direct refinements of the AK47 system. That would be Finland, Israel and South Africa. Hardly illiterate, uneducated and poorly trained, I would think.

n case you are even worse than I thought.. The problems with reliability in the AR have been addressed and fixed. The AK however is NOT 100% reliable, and unless you want to pretend otherwise...many people have found that the the AR is superior in EVERY OTHER ASPECT, and some people find that the AR is actually MORE reliable making it the better choice, period.

I point you to the first post in this thread, maybe you ought to read what I said and what the original poster implied:

Mom's husband has an AR with reliablilty problems (imagine that). I have two AKs that are 100% and always have been(imagine that).

Any more comments?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There are 1001 AK vs. AR threads that can be revived if anyone wants to once again discuss that subject for the umpteenth time. Otherwise, let's try to keep this thread limited to the question at hand.

Is it worth trading two reliable AKs for one unreliable AR? Seems to me like unless you know why the AR is unreliable, you can't make an informed decision on that subject.

 

[Texas Gunman]

I have a few ARs and AKs,both have been 100% reliable.
I'd gladly trade one of my AKs for a AR any day.

Most likely his AR has minor problem,that can be easily fixed.

TG

 

[trueblue1776]

In my expirience (I don't work for a gunsmith so don't tear me up if you think I'm wrong) the first cause of a malfunction in the M16/AR15 family is the lineup of the three gas rings in the bolt. The second would be a dirty chamber, or in the case of a shabby manufacture, a tight chamber.

 

[BevrFevr]

thanks for all the info...

Some of you actually got the gist of what I was asking about.

Let me rephrase a bit.

When a good ar goes bad are there some well known common and cheap to fix problems?

Or another way to put it, Is there the potential that I will have to get a masters degree in smithing ar's to run this down?

I can pretty much do everything that would ever need done to my AK with a hammer and a pair of pliers.

To fix my cz75 I asked on the forum and most of the knowledable and honest guys told me they often come with crap extractor springs. They were right.

Some of you mentioned some things that would be a place to look at. To me there are so many parts to an AR that I thought it would be good to ask for some info before I go any further.

I did not intend for an AR vs. Ak debate but on the other hand it is always interesting to me. I love caliber wars too.

Without debate many of us would learn very little.

Thanks -bevr