AR triggers and accessories.

Axis II said:
How about the triggers on both higher end rifles?
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Usually if you want anything besides a junky mil spec trigger, you'll have to lay out for it, even Daniel Defense and Colt rifles just come with a crusty old milspec trigger, could be 5.5lbs all the way up to 9lbs. There are a few exceptions, some Rock Rivers and Geisseles come with upgraded triggers and some of the kits you can get from PSA will have a trigger upgrade but typically, you'll need to shop for that and install it. LaRue and Geissele make an excellent trigger for around $100 and even though I am thrifty and show alot of financial restraint, I have found trigger upgrades to be worthwhile.

LaRue MBT and Geissele G2S are excellent 2 stage triggers with very crisp and consistent pull weights and they aren't much money.
 
Robert said:
Why?
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That way you can pick up any AR15/M16 in the world and shoot well with it. It also gives you a starting point. Learn the basics then add improvements.

Or just go buy that gun shop special AR15 for $4000. It will have every possible accessory added to it and was assembled for that "special customer" that was born yesterday.
 
drobs said:
That way you can pick up any AR15/M16 in the world and shoot well with it. It also gives you a starting point. Learn the basics then add improvements.

Or just go buy that gun shop special AR15 for $4000. It will have every possible accessory added to it and was assembled for that "special customer" that was born yesterday.
Click to expand...
I've shot a nearly bone stock AR for the better part of 20 years now. I finally added a LaRue MBT trigger to mine, well now it's in my AR308, last year. I should have upgraded the trigger on day one. A simple $115 trigger does not equate to buying a boutique $4k rifle, but it does make a world of difference in how well my rifle shot. I've always been a field accurate shooter, meaning I'm not chasing one ragged hole at any distance, but a good trigger made consistent, and fast follow up, shots so much easier.

I totally understand the learn to run what you got mind set. I did it for years. My FAL trigger is what it is and there is no fixing it, but if I was going to spend any kind of money on a accessory for a new AR shooter, it would be a good trigger. LaRue raised their MBT to $115. It's still one of the best triggers for the money, and an outstanding value.

I'm a proponent of learning to use, and being competent with iron sights, but optics make life souch easier. But a good trigger is by far the best upgrade a new AR owner can make.
 
Robert said:
I've shot a nearly bone stock AR for the better part of 20 years now. I finally added a LaRue MBT trigger to mine, well now it's in my AR308, last year. I should have upgraded the trigger on day one. A simple $115 trigger does not equate to buying a boutique $4k rifle, but it does make a world of difference in how well my rifle shot. I've always been a field accurate shooter, meaning I'm not chasing one ragged hole at any distance, but a good trigger made consistent, and fast follow up, shots so much easier.

I totally understand the learn to run what you got mind set. I did it for years. My FAL trigger is what it is and there is no fixing it, but if I was going to spend any kind of money on a accessory for a new AR shooter, it would be a good trigger. LaRue raised their MBT to $115. It's still one of the best triggers for the money, and an outstanding value.

I'm a proponent of learning to use, and being competent with iron sights, but optics make life souch easier. But a good trigger is by far the best upgrade a new AR owner can make.
Click to expand...

I dumped my FAL over it's poor accuracy in favor of a M1A. A 17lb trigger pull is just a little too heavy for me. Plus the iron sights sucked. The accuracy for the price of the ammo just wasn't there. James Reeves did a recent review of a DSA FAL - his starting groups are horrible. His scoped groups aren't that much better.

www.youtube.com

Upgrading the Classic Rhodesian FAL Rifle: Is it Worth It?

In this video, @JamesReeves takes a look at the DSA Bush Tracker FAL rifle, a modern take on the classic FN FAL. We compare the accuracy of the standard 21" ...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

I still shoot a milspec trigger and iron sights with my Windham AR15 and have taken 2 deer with it. I'm due to add a scope with a lighted reticle. I passed on 2 deer this year because, while within legal shooting hours, it was too dark to see the sights. The milspec trigger doesn't bother me. I also have been shooting milspec triggers since Army Basic Training in 1993.
 
drobs said:
I finally went and bought 2 based off a local shop's recommendation.
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You could do a lot worse. Our local has one Fudd guy, and one Black Rifle guy. Granted, they want to sell you something, but you don't have a long way to go complain if it doesn't work....
Moon
 
DustyGmt said:
Usually if you want anything besides a junky mil spec trigger, you'll have to lay out for it,
Click to expand...
A good trigger is money well spent. I was trained on an M16 dash nothing; high mileage might have helped that trigger.
Too, a bolt .22 was the extent of my shooting experience at that point, and our sergeants weren't big on trigger training beyond "don't jerk the trigger".
But a good, clean trigger both makes it easier to get a shot off, and enhances your experience running the gun.
Moon
 
I agree with Drobs, and for the same reasons, youre way better off learning and being able to shoot a stock trigger (and that goes for any gun, not just the AR's), than to try and buy your way out of a non existant problem. All you're really doing is creating a problem.

I have a bunch of AR's and have shot a bunch more, and never had any issues with them. All I might could say bad about them is, that some can be a tad "crunchy" as they come, which usually settles out if you shoot them a bit.

A couple of minutes with a felt tip with some polishing compound on it with your Dremel chucked up in a vise can clean that right up, and a dab of copper anti-seize on the sear and you just saved yourself the $80-$100 the "cheaper" aftermarket trigger jobs cost you, and that little bit you did, will give you as good or better a job.
 
Schmid two stage triggers are an excellent value for under $100
Sold by several vendors, Aero, FCD, etc..
I picked up a couple from Centurion Arms
Those replaced a BCM and PSA EPT trigger, that's made by Schmid also.

When I was looking at getting a Ruger SR762 the one off the rack had a not so great trigger.
The PSA EPT was the only comparison I had and I figured I'd get another one as they're like $60 or so.
The rifle they brought from the back had their new two stage trigger in it, which had me all goofed up at first when I dry fired it at the store.
Almost thought something was installed backwards in the trigger but then realized it was a two stage, a bit of take up then a nice clean break.
Wound up putting two stage triggers in my other rifles not long after using that one for a bit.
 
All I ever shot before I actually bought triggers were stock and never really had a frame of reference so I didn't really hate my stock AR triggers but being able to stage your trigger allowed me to be much more precise and it was a huge improvement. Before I bought anything I polished them first but it didn't remove the slop and pull weight in any appreciable way.

I still have a stock mil spec trigger on one of my AR's just because I haven't bothered to change it but for $100 +/- I think a quality trigger is one of the best things you can do for your AR next to having quality sight/optic.
Robert said:
ILaRue raised their MBT to $115. It's still one of the best triggers for the money, and an outstanding value.
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For what you get, I've always been puzzled as to how they were able to sell for $80-$90 for as long as they did because it can punch in the same weight class of any Geissele. $115 is still way reasonable, if anything the LaRue MBT has just as crisp of a break as the SSA-E enhanced, the only gripe I have on the LaRue is I wish they had kept the same trigger profile as a mil spec. The flat face isn't a hindrance of any kind, it's just a matter of preference and just liking the standard trigger profile. They also include a heavier pull weight spring (6lb iirc) if you don't want it to be as touchy. It really breaks like an icicle.....
 
DustyGmt said:
Usually if you want anything besides a junky mil spec trigger, you'll have to lay out for it, even Daniel Defense and Colt rifles just come with a crusty old milspec trigger, could be 5.5lbs all the way up to 9lbs. There are a few exceptions, some Rock Rivers and Geisseles come with upgraded triggers and some of the kits you can get from PSA will have a trigger upgrade but typically, you'll need to shop for that and install it. LaRue and Geissele make an excellent trigger for around $100 and even though I am thrifty and show alot of financial restraint, I have found trigger upgrades to be worthwhile.

LaRue MBT and Geissele G2S are excellent 2 stage triggers with very crisp and consistent pull weights and they aren't much money.
Click to expand...
Or learn to do your own trigger jobs.
Going from a cheap heavy 5 to 6lb sport trigger with a good bit of creep to a 2lb trigger with little to no creep will shrink groups at least 1moa.
You can set them how ever you want.
 
I assemble my AR’s, so parts kits sans trigger are purchased and LaRue MBT’s fill the gap.

Affordable great triggers ($85) are one of the reasons why the platform is great.

Even the PSA EPT trigger is a welcomed improvement over mil-spec. And those parts kits including their EPT is really affordable.

But to each their own. I know that I would have no problem picking up a mil-spec AR and putting rounds on target in a defensive scenario, if some random and unforeseen reason that would be the case. Until then I’ll enjoy my AR’s with smooth triggers that break at nice weights for their use.
 
N555 said:
Or learn to do your own trigger jobs.
Going from a cheap heavy 5 to 6lb sport trigger with a good bit of creep to a 2lb trigger with little to no creep will shrink groups at least 1moa.
You can set them how ever you want.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt that I could learn, but I would caution people to stay in their lane and to know their limitations. Too many people go to youtube (not saying you) and start filing away and changing a perfectly safe trigger to an extremely dangerous one (me). I tried to do this with a 10/22 and wasn't comfortable with the outcome so I put a new trigger in. Just saying..... I know the operative word in your post was "to learn". If that's your skillset, by all means. Some people don't know what they don't know in terms of their own skillset.
 
DustyGmt said:
I don't doubt that I could learn, but I would caution people to stay in their lane and to know their limitations. Too many people go to youtube (not saying you) and start filing away and changing a perfectly safe trigger to an extremely dangerous one (me). I tried to do this with a 10/22 and wasn't comfortable with the outcome so I put a new trigger in. Just saying..... I know the operative word in your post was "to learn". If that's your skillset, by all means. Some people don't know what they don't know in terms of their own skillset.
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I have already made dangerous triggers and I love them. They're probably my favorite.
The first AR15 trigger I ever did I intentionally ruined it it would fire as soon as it was touched. I just wanted to see how much to buff away before it got ridiculous.
It was a lot easier than I thought it would be, I bought 3 hammer and triggers because I figured I would ruin them all learning.
 
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drobs said:
I dumped my FAL over it's poor accuracy in favor of a M1A. A 17lb trigger pull is just a little too heavy for me. Plus the iron sights sucked. The accuracy for the price of the ammo just wasn't there. James Reeves did a recent review of a DSA FAL - his starting groups are horrible. His scoped groups aren't that much better.
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I got lucky then, mine is rather accurate. It's a battle rifle, it was never intended to be a precision rifle. 3-4 MOA was the standard then. I've shot mine out to 425y using only irons and made a first rounds, and repeated hits, on a torso sized steel plate. That's good enough for me.

It's a battle rifle. It fills that role just fine. It eats whatever I feed it and seems to hold decent accuracy across different loads. But, as in all things, a sample size of one is not really all that special.
 
Robert said:
I got lucky then, mine is rather accurate. It's a battle rifle, it was never intended to be a precision rifle. 3-4 MOA was the standard then. I've shot mine out to 425y using only irons and made a first rounds, and repeated hits, on a torso sized steel plate. That's good enough for me.

It's a battle rifle. It fills that role just fine. It eats whatever I feed it and seems to hold decent accuracy across different loads. But, as in all things, a sample size of one is not really all that special.
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I kept all my FAL mags when I sold mine back in 2009. I probably wouldn't buy another one unless it was fantastic deal. They are cool historical rifles though.
 
When it comes to guns that will see getting carried and used, theres a difference between good and dangerous. A 2# trigger on an AR is dangerous to me, unless it were maybe a dedicated "bench" type gun that wasn't going to be routinely handled while loaded.

I went round and round with a buddy of mine back in the 90's over something like this when we were big into the HK 91's and their cousins. Most Americans considered the HK triggers "horrible" and unshootable, and Williams was making a killing doing trigger jobs on them. My buddy sent his off and it came back with a very nice "Americanized target trigger", but the gun wasn't what Id consider safe for carrying it for its intended use. The trigger was WAY to light. HK's stock triggers were different, but they were nowhere even close to bad.

A heavier trigger isn't necessarily "bad", as long as its clean, and you haven't been conditioned to only be able to shoot tweaked triggers well. For any kind of serious and/or hard use, I think its a necessary thing.
 
trackskippy said:
When it comes to guns that will see getting carried and used, theres a difference between good and dangerous. A 2# trigger on an AR is dangerous to me, unless it were maybe a dedicated "bench" type gun that wasn't going to be routinely handled while loaded.
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Agreed.

My LaRue’s are 2.5+2lbs for a total of 4.5# and is really clean. I don’t use AR’s for precision shooting, that’s what my bolts are for.

I prefer a 2 stage with a nice wall and clean break.
 
Robert said:
I got lucky then, mine is rather accurate. It's a battle rifle, it was never intended to be a precision rifle. 3-4 MOA was the standard then. I've shot mine out to 425y using only irons and made a first rounds, and repeated hits, on a torso sized steel plate. That's good enough for me.

It's a battle rifle. It fills that role just fine. It eats whatever I feed it and seems to hold decent accuracy across different loads. But, as in all things, a sample size of one is not really all that special.
Click to expand...
Does your gun actually shoot a "group", or does it string the rounds as it warms up?

I had three FAL's, an FN, and a couple of L1A1 "kit" guns. None of them would shoot what I considered a group, but all of them would string them vertically, especially as they warmed up. They were more than reasonable for MOM accuracy within realistic distances, but compared to the M14/M1A's, there was no comparison.

Over the years, I got to talk to a couple of people who were issued the FAL/SLR's and they said that the stringing thing was pretty much typical with them.
 
That's what I don't like about the MBT, the squared trigger.
I didn't like the Armory Craft triggers I have for my Sig pistols for the same reason and they got pulled back out.
 
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