AR Upper for use with WOLF ammo?

[NWGunner]

I know I know. Don't use Wolf! I am aware that Wolf has recently come out with a polymer coated .223 cartridge which is supposed to ease, or even eliminate the problems with extraction and fouling of the chamber. I have some lowers I want to build up for possible use during a SHTF scenario, which in my mind means being able to digest just about any commercial and military ammo available. Some have said to "clean frequently" and this will take care of the problem associated with WOLF and fouling. Which brand of upper, in your opinion, can take the most abuse/negelct and number of rounds before it stops functioning, assuming WOLF is used exclusively?

I am considering Del-Ton, STAG, and M-AParts uppers.

Saying "just buy an AK" isn't helpful. I have one already and love it....but still want a "beater/SHTF" AR. Is this possible?

 

[30 cal slob]

pick your upper.

rip out the front sight and the gas tube and the key from the BCG.

install adams arms gas piston conversion kit for an extra $500.

then you can feed your ar rubber dog poop and it will still cycle.

 

[strat81]

Whatever you get, a chrome lined barrel and chamber will help with extraction. Also be sure to install one of the "extractor upgrade kits" that Midway and BravoCo sell.

If you have the choice, get the Wolf Mil-Classic. It's loaded a bit hotter which can help with cycling. Be sure to test a few mags worth of each lot you buy to ensure you don't have a fubar lot.

Del-Ton sells a lightweight kit that would be nice for SHTF.

 

[NWGunner]

Yeah, for around $500, the Del-Ton kits seems like a good deal. I've heard mixed things about the necessity of chrome-lining, but the bottom line is that it can't hurt the rifle. Some say "I only feed my AR WOLF and have never had a FTF, FTFire, or FTE", all the way to "If I even get WOLF ammo in the same room as my AR, the barrel begins to sag and the BCG turns colors"....well maybe not that, but you get the idea. So I'm all over the map.

One of the main concerns I have is that the WOLF steel case is too rigid compared to the brass and won't properly seal to the chamber during ignition...resulting in combustion gasses flowing back into the chamber area and causing premature chamber fouling. Would it be fair to say that a high(er) power round would expand the casing more/faster to make a better seal? Seems fairly logical so long as the casing is done expanding before the bullet is dislodged from the casing neck. Does anyone have an experience or info on this? I've got to believe that the folks at WOLF expect their product to be used in AR-15's and would hopefully make some improvements in their ammo as a result of this.

The extractor kit upgrade is an excellent idea. I will do that for sure.

 

[41magsnub]

With my stag minus chrome lining (I think) I am good for about 200 rounds of wolf mil-classic from a clean gun and then I get FTE's. Popping the shell out and a quick scrub of the chamber gets me another 200 rounds. Sort of annoying so I do not put myself through that anymore unless I get a super deal on the ammo.

 

[MGshaggy]

If you want to be able to use Wolf with the least chance of problems three things you should have;

1. 5.56 chamber (NOT .223)
2. chrome lined barrel
3. O-ring around the extractor spring to increase tension on the extractor(use a #60 O-ring)

 

[strat81]

I think the Wolf problem is a combination of many things:
1) The bullet and primer sealant some rounds use
2) Weak extractors
3) Poor maintenance habits
4) Tight chambers
5) Some weak lots of ammo
6) The fact Wolf is downright filthy ammo

Pick and choose a few of those, combine them, and you'll get problems.

As for chrome lining, the chrome is generally a bit slicker than a plain chrome-moly barrel. This makes them easier to clean and a bit more tolerant of filth. They're also easier on extraction.

 

[Picard]

Use Wolf on whatever AR you buy. The worst that can happen is that you may have some problems with extraction, which can be fixed, it seems, by just cleaning the rifle.

As for which AR to buy, well think about it this way. Why does one buy an expensive AR? If you're buying an expensive one for it to be more dependable and durable, it should be able to eat any ammo that you throw at it. You shouldn't be buying an expensive AR, only to buy expensive ammo to shoot, right?

I was considering an inexpensive AR for the same reasons and everything pointed me to Del-Ton. Reviews were good: inexpensive and dependable.

 

[DiN_BLiX]

resulting in combustion gasses flowing back into the chamber area and causing premature chamber fouling.

LOL doesnt that happen anyways?
But really, I shoot wolf thru my commie milsurps and my mini-14, usually just plinking as you really cant expect tight groups with wolf. My advice would be to find a decent brand/load that your AR shoots nice with and stock up on it if youre concerned with SHTF. Do you really want to have Xhundred rounds of crap? or 100 rounds of good ammo that you KNOW will be lethal on command. As for Del-Ton Ive heard nothing but good things about their kits, Im planning to buy one around income tax time, god and politics willing.

 

[Rugerdog]

If an AR wont run wolf it is a POS.
I run it in my RR M16 all the time. I can go more than 1k rds before needing to lube or clean.- Art

 

[gidaeon]

Despite the 'tsk 'tsk's, and warnings I heard I must say my RRA middy, chrome lined happily gobbles and spits Wolf no problem.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Mine works just fine.

Delton midlength 16" upper, chrome lined barrel, 5.56 chamber.

 

[Zach S]

I just dont like wolf. Its sooty, its weak, and it stinks.

Not that any ammo smells like roses, but when you stand on the wrong side of the rifle ammo that doesnt reek is a big plus.

However, to contribute to the thread, I'd probably build a del-ton kit to use as a beater/trunk/truck gun that got a steady diet of nasty, weak, and rank ammo.

 

[NWGunner]

Sounds like the consensus from the Del-Ton owners is good. Nice to hear that RRA rifles like WOLF, too. To respond to the suggestion about finding good ammo, then stocking up; Ideally, I'd do that, then truck my ammo cache of 10,000 rounds with me in a tactical wheelbarrow Seriously though, It'd be more of *knowing* that the rifle *could* use the ammo in a pinch. In many SHTF scenarios, some sort of major movement/relocation/travel usually comes into the picture. Assuming I could only take the rifle and not a ton of ammo, I'd want to hedge my bets in that case by having a rifle I know would do well with most anything I would shoot in it. Also, the goal isn't necessarily to find the cheapest AR kit that will digest WOLF, it's to find a rifle kit that represents good value, which Del-Ton seems to do.

I'm sold on the chrome-lined chamber. I will definitely do this.

And yes, I know combustion gases come back into the chamber during ignition. I was merely asking if, by nature of WOLF's steel case, *more* combustion gases return to the chamber, per round, all things being equal.

FWIW, shooting WOLF ammo reminds me of other smells I really like: the 4th of july, burnt rubber, a healthy campfire, etc. I don't mind it at all.

 

[m4shooter]

I've never had a fouling or feeding problem with Wolf on either of my ARs - Colt 20" and Rock River 16".

But I agree with DiN_BLiX. When the SHTF, I'm going to be feeding clean and accurate ammo into my rifles. Definitely not Wolf.

 

[sarduy]

CMMG M4 16''


it shoot everything
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/CMMG_.223_5.56x45_AR15_M4_16_Complete_Upper_Half.html

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I would pick a Stag.

I don't like steel cased ammo, but if your AR15 will not function with steel cased ammo, something is wrong (sometimes it is the ammo, which is why I prefer Bear/Barnaul over Wolf). Don't buy an AR15 that will not work reliably with steel cased ammo.

 

[Hey_Allen]

One of the biggest things I had heard to be "wrong" with Wolf ammo was the steel case, and apparently low power powder charges.

From what I've heard, the lacquer added to the later production just tends to transfer to the chamber, and build up there.

I just can't see spending the buck or two less, to make my shooting reliability poorer, or my cleaning more aggravating.


That all being said, I suspect that just about any AR should shoot steel cased ammo, it just might wear on the chamber faster than the brass stuff. (And you might consider just staying away from "match" barreled/chambered rifles, as they tend to tighter tolerances and all...

 

[wcwhitey]

Try running Barnaul or Brown Bear. Cheaper and cleaner and a little more accurate IMHO. As others have stated I have not seen any problems with the Wolf unrelated to a few weak loaded lots of and individual rifles with issues. My guns run fine on either, one chrome lined, one not but I still prefer the Barnaul brands for the reasons mentioned.

I will say and others may disagree that AR's need a few hundred round break in with full power factory ammo. It has been my experience that a good break in adds to the overall reliability of the rifle. Take a tight new gun, underpowered and dirty Wolf and I believe you have the source of this myth.

 

[rob_s]

I find that a 5.56 chamber is more forgiving of Wolf than one that isn't. Unfortunately many makers mark their barrels as being 5.56 chambers that turn out not to be.

 

[rob_s]

Try running Barnaul or Brown Bear. Cheaper and cleaner and a little more accurate IMHO.

I've seen people post this a few times, but I never seem to come across it any cheaper, at least not appreciably so. I'm about to order some 62 grain Wolf at $220/k (plus shipping) but if the Barnaul or Brown Bear are available somewhere for less I'll look into it.

Have a link?

 

[Rifleman 173]

Wolf works good in all 4 of my ARs/M-4 clones. 2 Bushmasters, 1 Stag and 1 Superior Arms run on it with no problems at all.

 

[briansmithwins]

My CMMG has digested about 2k of Wolf without any problems. I suspect this is because;
1) I clean the chamber with the chamber brush after each shooting session.
2) Extractor has the bravocompanyusa.com upgrade (HD spring, black insert, AND o-ring) installed.
3) Chromed chamber.
4) Rifle is run wet with lube.

I still have a few dozen Wolf cartridges. I use them for function checking rifles 'If it runs with Wolf, it will lrun with any ammo'.

BSW

 

[Nikdfish]

I just put together a Del-ton kit (with which I am very happy, BTW). This was included attached to the packing slip:



i.e. don't call us if marginal ammo causes problems...

Nick

 

[wcwhitey]

Rob_S - Your $220/1000 price a a good one. I bought a few thousand rounds of Barnaul from Wideners a while back at $198/1000 62 Grain. Out of stock currently, the Brown Bear (same thing) is $120/500 a few bucks more.

I buy the Brown Bear 62 HP locally at $30/120, about a buck a box cheaper than the Wolf he carries. This is what I have been backfilling my coffers with.

I looked around at both AIM $114.75/500 and Ammo To Go $224.95/1000. This is for Brown Bear 55, 62 BT, HP and SP configurations.

John, from Frugals Forum sells the same thing for $130 delivered. Bill