Are 44 Revolvers Dying?
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Mark_Mark
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Bet Clint hand loads! —- .45 acp with; Speer 200 grain SWC & 4.9 grain of WST.
Clint don’t look like he trust anybody and loads his own!
W.E.G.
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Mark_Mark
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No Way! Clint was rocking a Colt 1911A1 from the Korean War. Definitely .45 ACP
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Another 500fps makes that point null & void.
Not to mention that with commercial cast bullets, the meplat diameter is often the same. It's never equal to the difference in bullet diameter. People 'assume' the .45 is 0.022" bigger but it usually ain't.
.45Coltguy
Member
Uhmm, how so? .452" is .452" .430" is .430", is it not? I fully understand the .44 mag is more powerful than a .45 Colt. But, diameter measurements are just that. Can't get around that.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The bullet diameter is irrelevant. It's the meplat that creates the wound channel, not what's behind it. Look at both the .44 and .45 LFN's, meplat is the same at .300. That means they will produce a similar wound channel but the .44 will have less friction and thus, penetrate deeper. All amounts to angels dancing on the head of a pin but it's more complicated than people like to think and details matter.
.45Coltguy
Member
All fine and dandy, but, remember, I don't hunt with a handgun, so, metplat doesn't mean anything to me. Others possibly. Instead of bickering over this, read my posts here in this thread and possibly you'll see where I'm coming from. I get your point. Try to see mine. Fair enough?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
This ain't bickering, it's a discussion.
Meplat matters to this discussion. I get your point, I've heard it a million times. My point is that people just assume the .45 is bigger. Well, it is but sometimes it ain't. So the point I made that you refuted, that the standard pressure .45 is "less in every way" is reality.
At "Ruger only" levels the two are equals, with a very slight tug of war balancing velocity and penetration.
Styx
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When people think of semiautos, 22lr, 9mm, and 45acp are king. Those are the staples and the standard calibers.
Likewise, regardless of all the back and forth debates and nitpicking, when it comes to revolvers AND when people think of revolvers, 38 special, 357 magnum, and 44 magnum are what people think of. It's not 45 Colt, 454 Casull, .460 S&W, .500 S&W, etc. 38 special, 357 magnum, and 44 magnum are the standard calibers that aren't going anywhere anytime soon as long as revolvers are being sold. There's no need to go down the rabid hole about what other big-bore calibers are the better or not IMHO.
Likewise, regardless of all the back and forth debates and nitpicking, when it comes to revolvers AND when people think of revolvers, 38 special, 357 magnum, and 44 magnum are what people think of. It's not 45 Colt, 454 Casull, .460 S&W, .500 S&W, etc. 38 special, 357 magnum, and 44 magnum are the standard calibers that aren't going anywhere anytime soon as long as revolvers are being sold. There's no need to go down the rabid hole about what other big-bore calibers are the better or not IMHO.
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Old Dog
Member
Well, now we have a face to the name. Thank you for not looking like your (scary) avatar. BTW, nicely written little essay that surely reflects the sentiments of a lot of us on this particular forum.
Yes, thank you. Geez, start a thread about .44 revolvers being dead and it devolves into which revolver caliber and load are the best, yikes!
44 Magnum is a good hunting round if applied properly.
I do lots of back yard plinking and I tend to load my 44 Magnum guns with 44 Special level loads in Magnum cases. Fun shooting. I love the heavy, large diameter, slow moving bullets punching holes in target of opportunity. I love the ring of the gong when hitting the down field steel target versus the splat of a fast moving bullet.
For hunting, I'd step the power up.
I do not have any guns chambered in 44-40 WCF or 44 Russian. I'ver been kind of curious about 44-40 and I may invest in a lever gun and revolver chambered in that cartridge.
I really do not have any use for a 44 Russian revolver. So, I'll never say "never" but I won't load shoot 44 Russian in my 44 Special or 44 Magnum guns. Besides, I doubt I'd be interested in one unless it had some historical significance.
I passed on a 44-40 WCF Commeroable N-frame (S&W Model m544 I think) a number of years back that I I wish I had purchased.
I reload, so ammunition is not an issue if I want to shoot the gun.
I do lots of back yard plinking and I tend to load my 44 Magnum guns with 44 Special level loads in Magnum cases. Fun shooting. I love the heavy, large diameter, slow moving bullets punching holes in target of opportunity. I love the ring of the gong when hitting the down field steel target versus the splat of a fast moving bullet.
For hunting, I'd step the power up.
I do not have any guns chambered in 44-40 WCF or 44 Russian. I'ver been kind of curious about 44-40 and I may invest in a lever gun and revolver chambered in that cartridge.
I really do not have any use for a 44 Russian revolver. So, I'll never say "never" but I won't load shoot 44 Russian in my 44 Special or 44 Magnum guns. Besides, I doubt I'd be interested in one unless it had some historical significance.
I passed on a 44-40 WCF Commeroable N-frame (S&W Model m544 I think) a number of years back that I I wish I had purchased.
I reload, so ammunition is not an issue if I want to shoot the gun.
My ffl buddy just tried to sell me on one of those in 500.......for less than 1/2MSRP
his initial question was...."do you think it will hurt" my response "No, cause your never selling me that"
For me a handgun that large is a novelty, as such I want sling swivels, yeah needs sling swivels, and I want to be able to Crocodile Dundee anyone with it...."that's not a gun, THIS is a gun!"
I guess id need an appendix holster to make that work right..........hrrrmmm.....sling swivels might pinch......
adcoch1
Member
Make that an 8 shot 44 mag and I'd bite. But as a joke I'd put a small set of wagon wheels under the barrel and call it a mobile artillery piece.
The 44 mag or special is far from dead, and that makes me happy since it's my favorite. My first revolver was a 44 mag and I won't be without one. Having all the new options in models to pick from just makes it easier to enjoy. Personally I think 44 is the sweet spot, no matter what power level you want to load it to...
TTv2
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Maybe I'm wrong, but much of what drove the .44 Mag's popularity was it being the most available highest power handgun caliber 50+ years ago and its premier status in films of the 1970s like Dirty Harry and Taxi Driver. Today there's far more powerful calibers that are easily available online and most movies these days are all about speed and 9mm.
I don't want to say the .44's are dying as all things seem to go thru peaks and troughs, but unlike .45 revolvers where there's always the potential for cutting them for moon clips to use .45 ACP and the popularity of the .410/.45 Colt revolvers and the Western craze thanks to video games like Red Dead Redemption 2 there's a strong case to be made that the .44 is losing popularity and unlikely to ever regain it.
I don't want to say the .44's are dying as all things seem to go thru peaks and troughs, but unlike .45 revolvers where there's always the potential for cutting them for moon clips to use .45 ACP and the popularity of the .410/.45 Colt revolvers and the Western craze thanks to video games like Red Dead Redemption 2 there's a strong case to be made that the .44 is losing popularity and unlikely to ever regain it.
Miami_JBT
Member
When Dirty Harry was being drafted, the Model 29 in .44 Magnum wasn't in production. They had such lackluster sales that S&W ceased production of the gun since what they had in inventory was enough for the meager orders that would trickle in.
When Dirty Harry came out, popularity of the film made the gun a character unto itself. That drove orders and cemented the gun in pop culture.
You literally talk to any non-gun person on the street and they know Dirty Harry and the .44 Magnum. They won't know what .454 Casull or .460 S&W Magnum is. But they'll know what the .44 Magnum is.
.44 Magnum has transcended from being just another cartridge in a myriad of cartridges, to being cemented in American culture and lexicon.
When push comes to shove, there is alot of performance overlap between various cartridges. Cartridge designers and cartridge/firearms manufacturers are always looking to the holy grail that will yield them that market that will yield them the most dollars for their buck.
Hence, we have many cartridges that have overlapping performance parameters.
But sometimes trying to "build a better mouse trap", aka a better cartridge, is counter productive and maybe working designs that are already available make a more efficient solution.
Hence, we have many cartridges that have overlapping performance parameters.
But sometimes trying to "build a better mouse trap", aka a better cartridge, is counter productive and maybe working designs that are already available make a more efficient solution.
Miami_JBT
Member
"Sell the sizzle, not the steak."
Ammo and gun companies are just that. Companies. They're trying to make profit. They'll come up with new products because guess what, new sells. Even if the new product does exactly what the old product did. Heck, when .44 Special came out, it was an exact replica of the .44 Russian in terms of performance. Same bullet at the same speed, but a larger cartridge. But the .44 Special took off like a bat out of hell and eclipsed the .44 Russian. And that was over 100 years ago.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
We'll never truly know but I always credited the .44Mag's popularity to Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton and silhouette shooting in the 1970's way more than Dirty Harry.
The .44Special eclipsed the Russian because there were no more new guns chambering the Russian and no reason to. What sold the Special was the revolver that originally chambered it, the Triple-Lock.
I never had much affinity for the .44-40 and never would've wanted a S&W 544 Wagon Train until I heard the late gunwriter Terry Murbach talk about his on the old Sixgunner forum. Saying it was one of the most accurate sixguns he'd ever owned and regaled us with stories relating to it. Made me want one, or at least not turn my nose up at the next one that presented itself. A good gunwriter will do that to you. Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith and John Taffin certainly did that for the .44 Special. Some of us fiends are still having them made, because nothing has changed about their utility or appeal.
The .44Special eclipsed the Russian because there were no more new guns chambering the Russian and no reason to. What sold the Special was the revolver that originally chambered it, the Triple-Lock.
I never had much affinity for the .44-40 and never would've wanted a S&W 544 Wagon Train until I heard the late gunwriter Terry Murbach talk about his on the old Sixgunner forum. Saying it was one of the most accurate sixguns he'd ever owned and regaled us with stories relating to it. Made me want one, or at least not turn my nose up at the next one that presented itself. A good gunwriter will do that to you. Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith and John Taffin certainly did that for the .44 Special. Some of us fiends are still having them made, because nothing has changed about their utility or appeal.
.45Coltguy
Member
A fresh day, a fresh start. I'll stick to my three .45 Colt firearms and be content. If I can find any empty cases around here, think I'll load 'em up.
You all enjoy the day.
You all enjoy the day.
Miami_JBT
Member
Dirty Harry literally put the Model 29 back into production and saved the .44 Magnum from obscurity.
John Milius and S&W have both stated multiple times that prior to Dirty Harry being shown in theaters. Big Blue ceased production of the Model 29. The gun just wasn't selling. S&W had what they had on hand for inventory purposes, sitting on shelves in HQ, and at one point were looking at dumping them on the market to a distributor to clear up space and recoup some money. Inventory was so low, John Milius had problems finding what he originally wanted. Which was a 4" Model 29. S&W didn't have any on hand at the time, so, they went with the 6" model.
The film series turned it from an obscure handgun cartridge that would have faded into yesteryear like other cartridges have in the past. Pop culture is VERY POWERFUL. Both S&W and Wildey F.A. have admitted in the past that every time Dirty Harry or Death Wish III aired on cable in the in late 1980s to mid 1990s, orders for both guns would increase.
GLOCK even understood the power of pop culture and used it to their advantage. Beretta, S&W, SIG, and others would give their products to film production companies on the condition that their guns were the "hero guns." GLOCK didn't care and was happy to have the films bad guys use 'em. Hence the famous Die-Hard II scene of the "GLOCK 7 being made out of porcelain." It was absolute bull, but it was free advertising for GLOCK. Suddenly, potential gun buyers all across the US heard and saw GLOCKs in a way that magazine articles and reviews never could.
The film series gave it new life and introduced it to a much wider audience than what Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton ever could have dreamed of. It is what made it popular for silhouette shooting and gave those two gun writers the audience that was voraciously wanting more information about what they saw and heard on the silver screen.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Dirty Harry 'may' have saved the 29 but Ruger never stopped making .44Mag's, from day one. What movie sparked the interest in them? Yes, movies reach a broader audience but the casual shooter or dilettante isn't going to be shooting a lot of .44Mag. It's why many of them were sold used with less than a cylinderful fired. I seriously doubt silhouette shooting owed anything to Dirty Harry. Funny that Dirty Harry and Death Wish couldn't save the Automag or Wildey.
Whereas anybody can do mag dumps with a 9mm all day long.
Whereas anybody can do mag dumps with a 9mm all day long.
Styx
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I just looked up the weight. 99.1 oz!
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I would just carry a rifle!!!!
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