Does the .44 Spl snubby concept work?

[P. Plainsman]

the Taurus Titanium snub in .45 Colt . . . It is rated for +p loads as well.

Ouch!

I'm leery of titanium guns with hot ammo.

But I take your point; the Taurus 450 snubby in .45 Colt is another cool concept, similar to the .44 spl snub. In regular stainless steel, the 450's weight is almost idential to the 445.

The 450 boasts the Taurus "ribber" grips, whereas the 445 lacks them. And here, I can finally contribute something to this thread: Taurus's ribber grips are great.

They should make them available as an option for all of their frames.

 

[Paladin7]

I have a 696 and it is a constant range/trail companion. I purchased it for woods walking and cold weather personal defense. I don't like Taurus firearms, my opinion, YMMV, and I am unsure about Rossi (read not for me).

If you roll your own, you can have the power of a 38 spl, 45 acp, up to a mid range 44 mag. With the right strong side belt holster, may I recommend El Paso Saddelry's High Slide... www.epsaddlery.com, it is not a problem to carry comfortably.

As to the concept, I think it makes a lot of sense. A light weight (when compared to typical 44 mags) reliable platform that launches a big bullet that won't take out your hearing if shot in a confined space. There is also a lot of history behind the big bore "snubby" concept, because it works. Less pressure required to launch bigger bullets. Less blast, less recoil than a 357 magnum. Of all the shootings I have heard of with a 44 spl, they generally anchor what they hit.

My 696 is accurate, powerful and fun to shoot. It won't be traded at any price. Plus you can still find 696's around, but they are few and far between. So my advice is to grab the first one you see.

Keep us informed on what you decide...

 

[MrMurphy]

While I'm primarily an auto man and carry a G30 (11 rounds of .45 ACP is good), i started the handgunning thing with a revolver (Security Six 4") in the owning category...... I like big bore revolvers.

A 2.5" or 3" .44 Special five or six shot revolver would be fine by me as a belt piece. With a couple speedloaders I'd be just fine. Make the shots count and you'll be okay.

A 3" .45 Colt six shot would also be just fine with me for a woods gun.

Having shot several micro-.357s I agree, I'd rather have the .44.

 

[355sigfan]

I believe that if you like the idea of a small compact big bore revolver a 45 acp would make a better choice than the 44 special. A 5 shot 45 acp revolver with moon clips would make some sence for this crowd. For two reasons. First is ammo availabilty. There is all kinds of good top quality defense loads available in the 45 acp. With the 44 special your selection is much more limited. Second with the 45 acp with moon clips your reloads could be much faster. Also the ammo is cheaper if your not reloading.
Pat

 

[StrikeEagle]

quote:

"...a small compact big bore revolver a 45 acp would make a better choice..."

Hmmmm... I see what you're saying, but can't quite agree. The slightly smaller diameter of the .44 case allows for the smaller cylinder... or more beef in the chamber walls. I like that. Also, I'm not certain that in a pocket piece of this sort that speed reloads are an issue as they are in a service type weapon, IMHO.

I love and shoot both rounds, though.

best,
StrikeEagle

 

[Majic]

Being that a revolver is not ammo sensitive the ammo selection is not as important as it would be to a pistol.
Since I would be looking for an escape and not an extended fire fight the speed reload is the least of my worries. If they make the speed strips for the larger calibers I would be much happier than with a speed loader. They conceal considerably easier.
If you choose a .44sp you know going into the deal the cost of the ammo will most likely be higher. It's not like that's some well kept secret.

 

[355sigfan]

The rim diameter on the 44 special is about the same as the 45 auto. But your right there would be more steel between the chambers. However this is hardly a concern on either as they are low pressure rounds. The 45 acp cylinder can be considerably shorter and lighter allowing the trigger to be smoother.

The way I look at it. If your carring a 5 shot handgun fast reloads would be something of a priorty. Yes were looking to escape, but sometimes crap happens and 5 may not be enough. A 45 wheelgun can be reloaded fairly quickly and much faster than a conventional revolver with speed loaders.

As far as ammo goes I was not talking about ammo sensitivty. I was talking about terminal performance. My Glock 21 and Kimber 1911 are not ammo sensitive. They feed most everything. However there is a big difference in the performance of a +p 230 grain Ranger T 45 load that expands to .79 caliber and does great through heavy clothing and acceptably through glass and steel. and the average 44 special jhp that is either simply a 44 mag hollow point loaded to velocities the bullet could not even hope to expand at. Or light weight 165 grain Corbon loads that suck on barriers like windshield glass. The 45 has benefited from all the new bullet technology aim at law enforement in the last few years. The 44 special has not. There are far better loads available for the 45 acp vs the special.

Pat

 

[Majic]

double post

 

[Majic]

In a self defense situation for the average Joe on the street, why would you be shooting thru windshields and metal? We aren't talking about a LEO or military application. Most high tech bullets of today are designed for pistols. The newest load designed specifically toward the revolver today is the new Gold Dot for the .38 special and that was to address the lack of performance in the shorter barrels. Nothing high tech was done, just the weight of a proven design was lowered and the velocity raised. The revolver has worked quite well with the bullets that have been on the market for quite a while.

 

[Stainz]

I always think of the FBI's needs back in the thirties, when S&W developed a .38 that would pierce the car doors of fleeing felons, who were often armed with military weapons stolen from national guard armories. Of course, that was the development of the .357 Magnum. If I, as a citizen, were to shoot at a fleeing felon... through his car door or window... I'd be a probable collar for assault! And, as to carrying enough ammo... I have visions of something belt-fed... with a few armor piercing rounds, as well.

I have to be realistic. Since most civilian encounters require 1-3 rounds, even a 5-shot without additional rounds should be appropriate. I have no doubt that the time-proven 'FBI load', the .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC, is a proven performer in a .38 snubnose. I have an even greater feeling of security with my .44 Special 5-shooters (296 & 696), especially loaded with the Speer 200gr Gold Dot bullets (#4427). Those bullets, designed specifically for .44 Special velocities (Other choices are available for higher speeds.) were designed to open up by 800 fps upon impact. They are the 'flying ashtray' type, with the thin walled and pre-cut mouth. The el-cheapo CCI Blazer 200gr .44 Specials use that bullet, although I have stopped shooting them due to one case split in my 696. Georgia Arms loads that bullet in their .44 Specials, too - and in Starline brass.

Again, I like the GA Arms ammo - which, like the Blazers, clears 800fps, albeit barely, from my 2.5" 296 - and hits 947 fps from my 20" Henry Big Boy. YMMV.

Stainz

 

[355sigfan]

Actually Magic there was more done with the new 38 load than simply lowering the weight and increasing the speed. The density of the jacket and the depth of the cavity were tweeked to meed the demands of firing from a 2 inch snub. For the most part a person with a CCW needs the same things a cop needs. Your carring on the street the same as a cop. When the cop needs an offensive weapon he gets a long gun. The handgun is defensive weapon for both a citizen and a cop.

The 2 or 3 shot average is just an average. A lot of gun fights end in one shot. Some go 30. Are you prepared to bet your life on an average number of anything. I am not. We require our officers to have at least one reload for their weapon when off duty.
Pat

 

[Majic]

We require our officers to have at least one reload for their weapon when off duty.

Because basically a LEO is never off duty. If a crime is in progress in his/her presence then the agency expects the officer to intervene. The required ammo capacity puts the officer close to his/her duty carry.
It's not just a pure self defence situation as with an average citizen.

Tweaking a known proven design is not high tech. Basically the same bullet that has been on the market was still used.

 

[355sigfan]

Actually if they were never off duty we would be paid 24 hours a day. We require it because if their armed they should have spare ammo. The past has shown that its a good idea. 5 rounds may be enough but it may not. There is little reason not to carry spare ammo. No good reasons. There are a lot of reasons why you should. In a real gun fight 5 rounds is gone before you ever realize it. With typical handgun stopping power and dopped muggers plus the average hit ratio of ccw holders you will probably need all 5 rounds for just one attacker. Not to mention the fact its been shown that criminals work with partners 83% of the time.

Don't plan on the best and get caught with your pants down when the worst happens. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

As for the Golddot. Sorry there was a lot of effort that went into that redesign. It was not nearly as simple as you think. The reason for the tweaking was that no bullets worked that well in 2 inch 38's. The 44 is in the same boat with short barrels. There are not than many good load choices. The 45 acp has a far greater selection of good choices that work far better than any 44 special factory load.
Pat

 

[Majic]

The best bullet for the short barreled .38sp was just dropped from the market as most shooters (who by the way happens to be pistol shooters these days) required jacketed bullets. The 158gr HPSWC has always been an excellent choice, but as you should have noticed there are almost no exposed lead bullets anymore. The industry is geared toward the production of jacketed bullets for the pistols and the short barreled revolvers (mainly the .38sp) suffered from this.

 

[P. Plainsman]

New S&W "Thunder Ranch" Model 21-4 .44 Special

Since this thread has drifted onto the topic of .44 Spls more generally, I'll pass on a tidbit. Many of you probably read this in the current issue of American Handgunner, like me.

Smith & Wesson is introducing a new blued, fixed-sight N-frame .44 Special, the "Thunder Ranch" Model 21-4. Barrel length is somewhere from 4" to 6" -- the article specified it, but I don't have it in front of me, and I'm not familiar enough with S&W nomenclature to know whether the "-4" in the model number tells the tale.

Anyway, they had a photo of Clint Smith holding the prototype model. Looked suh-weet. "Skinny barrel," i.e., not full underlug. Shades of Dirty Harry. Apparently the pitch will be that it's the "ultimate combat sixgun," per Mr. Smith.

Not a snubby, but (to my mind) an exciting gun. Article says it'll be priced like a regular N-frame; it's not a Performance Center model. Bet they sell like hot cakes. I'm thinking of calling my dealer Monday and asking him to hold one for me.

 

[Majic]

If S&W scrape the big gold billboard off the side plate of the M24-4 they probably will have many more sales. That is just plain tacky for what is billed as a fighting/combat revolver.

 

[P. Plainsman]

I couldn't see anything like that in the picture. Could you elaborate?

Does it have "THUNDER RANCH" embossed on the side or something like that? If so, I agree, ick.

*Just make classic blued guns like you used to, guys.*

Shouldn't be hard.

 

[Majic]

 

[Black Snowman]

For those of you who want to try the concept on a budget the latest KY Imports catalog has the Taurus 445T for $309.99

That would be the bright blue ported one with ribber grips.

 

[maxpeters]

I have always been a big fan of the .44 Spl. I go back to the days when Skeeter Skelton wrote for Shooting Times magazine. He was a big fan of the .44, so I became intrigued with the caliber, and guns chambered for it.

I have owned several different guns for the .44 Spl. , The only one I still have is a Taurus .44 spl. I saw at a gun show a number of years ago. I was attracted by the round butt, and the balance of the gun. It was also offered at a very attractive price.





This gun has the best trigger let off that I have ever felt. The trigger is smooth faced and wide. Not the best for double action, but it works just fine. The fixed sights are regulated to hit point of aim at 20 yards for me. That 's just great as far as I'm concerned.

The kick is heavy, but not too bad if you're used to firing a heavy caliber gun. And the .44 Spl. is a heavy hitter.
Theres a lot to be said about large caliber slugs. They hit with a lot of authority, and do not split your eardrums, or shock you with the consussion of a, say, .357 mag.

As far as 5 rounds being sufficient for self defense, believe me, it is plenty. I don't harbour dilusions of being attacked by a whole biker gang, or the national guard for that matter. Five rounds are plenty to save your life under most circumstances.

I carry it in a Bianchi # 5, Blackwidow holster. I shoot solid lead semiwadcutter ammo out of it. Cowboy practice ammo is fine with me. I don't have to rely on a hollow point to get the size of wound necessary for a quick put down.

I still find it an intriguing caliber, and feel very well protected when I am armed with it.

 

[jglcolosprgs]

I can't believe I bit on a six year old thread...... duh.

 

[whitecoyote]

I also like the .44 Special!

 

[nalioth]

Gentlemen, post dates exist for a reason.

Please don't necropost.

 

[Nasty]

I love zombie threads...

Content: Been carrying a S&W 696 since before the original post, supplemented over the last couple of years by a new CA Pug.

 

[joed]

About 3 years ago I bought a new Charter Arms Bulldog. To sum it up it was the worst gun I've ever owned, at 10 feet it shot 10" left and 10" low. The cylinder would bind and it shaved jackets badly. The gun was so bad I cleaned it and sold it on consignment.

While the Charter was being sold the owner of the shop called me in to show me a gun, a Taurus 445. The gun was hi polished stainless, 5 shot .44 Spl with 2" barrel. When I held it I realized it was much better made then the Charter could ever hope to be. I was somewhat reluctant to buy it till I heard the price was $260.

The 445 is very accurate and I would bet my life on it. It shoots where it is pointed every time. This is the first gun I've owned with a ported barrel and I'm sold on that concept now. After the first shot the gun is still pointed to where it was shot, a nice concept.

The 445 is a little bigger then a S&W K frame, but easy to conceal and carry. Why this gun is out of production is beyond me.

The only problem the gun has is the .44 Spl cartridge. Try to find .44 Spl ammo and you can see why the Spl is dying off. If you're lucky enough to find factory ammo it's expensive SD or Cowboy action. The 445 shoots 200 gr bullets the best.

In all honesty I believe a person would be better served by a small framed 6 shot .357 mag. But I like the .44 and keep the gun for that reason.