are AD's really 100% preventable?

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Eric F

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
2,933
Ok I am at work and bored to death as nothing is going on I have read a few threads today and noticed a lot of people saying that there is no reason for an Accidental Discharge in a modern gun. A neglent Discharge(seems to be a newer term) I would agree with. However an AD is completly possible with out neglegence. They can be rare events but they can and do happen.
For example on another forum I read about an ad in a house no body was seriously hurt but this is what happened and it sounds like a mythbusters thing but I beleive the poster as I know him(a trustable guy).
He posted he went to a friends house to pick up a pistol to work on it. The person goes to the "vault"......I must add here this is a secure room in a new construction house that was recently carpeted........as he touches the gun it discharges. An ambulance was called as the gun launched off the shelf and hit the person in the mouth the bullet went into the wall and stoped. As for the gun being loaded it is the mans "out of home" carry gun.
The police departments official finding was an electrical discharge caused 3 bullets to discharge at the same time hence launching the revolver off the shelf. The man had a single electrical burn on his index finger. Aparently the new carpet caused the ststic buildup the gun sitting on a metal shelf was ok but the shelf was sitting on a rubber mat causing an isolation. Now I am no genius on electrictiy but I have been shocked enough to beleive everything so far. The ammo in the gun were hand loads. The gun by the way was damaged beyond repair.
I read in popular mechanics several years ago of a similar accident but the ammo was not in a gun yet.

So I can accept that ad's do happen with out neglegence as rare as they are.
 
Of course ADs can, and very rarely occur.
Freak mechanical malfunctions do happen, but when most people say that they had an AD it is due to their booger hook being on the bang switch.
 
Was this a Cap & Ball revolver? because I don't see how a nominal static charge could set off a modern center-fire cartridge.

as for your question, I tend to agree but I've worked on too many finicky crew-served weapons(slamfires and runaways) to believe in it 100%.
 
I have had one in 50 years of shooting, and that was due to a defective or broken part in a M1carbine.Happened during qualifying at Lackland.Gun went full auto during five round sight in. Drill sergeant was sure it was my fault till he tried it, and and went full auto on him too.They handed me another carbine and without benefit of sighting it in, I still qualified sharpshooter.
 
AD, no. ND, yes. However, the potential for an AD to harm someone can be greatly reduced or eliminated by following the four rules.
 
Let's get our terms straight and then we can answer your question, Eric.

Accidental discharge=mechanical failure, act of Nature, no wrongdoing (action or non-action) of any human

Negligent discharge=breach of duty (action or non-action) of a human

No, you cannot eliminate accidents entirely. You can reduce their rates via technology and their harm via training.
 
It was a 38 spl revolver is all I know
Oh there is no problem with me and the terminology its just that I have seen posted a few people saying that there is no reason for an ad thats all.
 
There's a pretty clear line between AD and ND.

Regardless, as long as one observes rule # 2, no harm will come from either. "The gun just went off" is never a valid excuse for someone being hurt, even if the firearm did malfunction.
 
Fletcher & ElT said it best

AD can happen via mechanical failure (slam fire, etc) but most AD's are in fact ND's. Even a lot of mechanical failures can be ND's if you fail to properly maintain your firearm. Someone who fails to maintain there car by not replacing worn brake pads is negligent. So we should not cut folks slack for not doing routine maintenance on their weapons.
 
The operator is human. Humans are fallible. As a consequence, 100% is not possible.

Feces occurs.

Biker
 
You can reduce the chances of ADs by inspection of the parts of your weapon which wear out most often (varies from gun to gun). Some of the Eastern Bloc guns come packed in cosmoline - including around the firing pin. If you don't completely and thoroughly clean the firing pin channel, you could get a slam-fire when loading the gun. You can reduce but not eliminate ADs.
 
NDs are always preventable.

ADs maybe not. But there is never a reason anyone needs to be harmed in the case of an AD, as long as the firearm is pointed in a safe direction.
 
Neither ADs or NDs are 100% preventable. NDs should be 100%, but you're working with people so someone will always do something stupid at some point. I think AD's are not because by definition they are accidents. Maybe clothing snags the trigger while reholstering or a branch hits it in the woods. Proper technique will USUALLY prevent you from pulling that trigger unintentionally, but the right combination of stimuli can wreak havoc on anyone's nervous system causing bad things to happen.

I doubt I'm alone when I say I've discovered my hands, feet, etc. doing something that I wasn't even aware of. Accidents will always be with us.
 
Accidental discharge=mechanical failure, act of Nature, no wrongdoing (action or non-action) of any human

Negligent discharge=breach of duty (action or non-action) of a human
Click to expand...

Doesn't the term "accident" mean an act which is 100% preventable?
Click to expand...

NDs are always preventable.
Click to expand...

This thread sounds like a bunch of lawyers looking for their next meal ticket. Accidental and negligent discharges, whatever you want to call them, are not 100% preventable in the real world that I live in. Bad things happen, and IF you could have forseen all the possibilities that would occur to or around you in your life it would be a great (but boring) place to live.
 
>For example on another forum I read about an ad in a house no body was seriously hurt but this is what happened and it sounds like a mythbusters thing but I beleive the poster as I know him(a trustable guy).

Get a certified copy of the police report.

I would wager to say that the loaded cartridge forms a Faraday cage and that no amount of static can set off the primer and / or powder.

You would need energy to the point where it heats the cartridge up to the flash point of whatever has the lowest flash point in there.

IMO. Any physicists out there?
 
I don't think that they are 100% preventable, but the number could be drastically lower if everyone would figure out that triggers and fingers don't get along well unless pointed in a safe direction. The freak stuff happens, and will always happen, but discipline and training can cut the number of NDs to an insignificant number.
 
Actually the correct term for an unintentional discharge be it AD or ND, is FM. (F***ing magic). "Sarge, I was showing the new female recruit how to fast draw and all of a sudden, well it was FM. Sorry about the hole in your new Expedition. Thanks God it was FM and not my fault.":rolleyes:

Jimmy_B
 
I don't know Delta, there have been some freaky things happen. There was an SKS that slam fired on a bench and managed to flip itself around and kill the owner with the last shot in the mag. The freak stuff is just that and sometimes just happens. Gary Paulsen's(sp?) book "The Rifle" has an example of this. A flintlock that was bought by a collector who didn't know it was loaded has the charge ignited by a spark while it is hanging over the fireplace. The ball goes through the wall and kills a boy in the house next door. I understand that story is fiction, but that is the kind of freak stuff that happens. ( yes I know he should have checked an antibellum gun for a charge, but really)
 
There is no such thing as 100% unpreventable with stuff like that. Accidental discharges, negligent discharges, car accidents, falling down stairs, getting struck by lightning, none of it is preventable with 100% certainty.

It is all a simple matter of mathematical probability: as time approaches infinity, your chances approach one.

You can greatly reduce your chances of such by taking precautions. You can drive your entire life and never get in an accident and beat the odds, and an identical person with identical driving skills might get in an accident within the first year of driving. Given an arbitrarily long period of time, even the improbable becomes almost certainty.
 
AD's are much less common than ND's. But guns are mechanical items and can malfunction.

I have never had either and AD or ND. But I did have the firing pin of a late 1960's Remington 700 drop on an empty chamber when I switched the safety off to check and clear that same chamber. I no longer use that safety and generally distrust safeties, especially if I can't open the action with it on. Of course, no major harm would have come, but I would have needed to explain the hole in the floor to the landlords if I'd mistakenly stored a round in the tube. That's why we always point firearms in a safe direction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
ND vs AD
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
Owen Sparks
O
R
  • Locked
My AD story please read
Replies
16
Views
847
OcelotZ3
O
K
  • Locked
Are the gun safety rules flawed ?
2 3 4
Replies
94
Views
5K
ctdonath
C
S
  • Locked
Ky lawmaker discharges weapon in her office
Replies
0
Views
151
SunnySlopes
S
L
  • Locked
Do You Think I Handled This Correctly?
2 3 4 5
Replies
121
Views
4K
Sam1911
S
Back
Top