Are Bullpups the future?

[bbqncigars]

I own three bullpups (PS90, RDB, and GM6 Lynx) and they are part of my regular range rotation. The FN factory 5.7 ammo for the first is wildly variable and a bit spendy. The RDB has been very reliable with all .223/5.56 ammo, but I have to remember to set the gas for whatever I'm shooting. The Lynx sees fewer outings due to the overall weight of cased gun and ammo requiring an extra trip on the stairs between parking lot and shooting benches. The RDB is the most difficult of the three to deal with any ammo related malfunctions.

 

[LimaCharlie]

No. I have yet to see a Bullpup with an acceptable trigger. They all feel mushy.

 

[bbqncigars]

The RDB has a decent trigger despite a long linkage. PS90 is now up to marginal after some aftermarket fire control component upgrades. Sadly, the Lynx has a long mushy trigger even though the fire controls are in the grip. Ian McCollum was mystified on why the trigger wasn't better given the possibilities.

 

[citizenconn]

I bought a Springfield Hellion (cringe name) a year or so ago because I was very interested in trying a bullpup and felt it was the best option for me at the time. I ended up only keeping it for a few months then traded it for a couple of bolt action chassis rifles.

My reasons for trading away: the ergonomics were less than ideal; though it shot ok it was not as accurate as any of the several dozen ARs I have put together; the trigger was very mushy and imprecise; the plastic top rail had too much give for me to feel confident my optics would retain zero; too many proprietary parts (to me the best thing about ARs is that I can diagnose any problems in the field, repair virtually any problem with the spare parts I keep in my range bag, and tear it down and put it back together in the field if needed with just a handful of tools.)

I really really wanted to like that bullpup but in the end my ARs were just better feeling, handling and shooting at a fraction of the price.

 

[crestoncowboy]

as it was previously deemed that shouldering a pistol constituted remanufacturing the pistol into an SBR… and within THAT context, bullpups didn’t thrive either.

Even post awb the aug wasn't popular. I looked at one right after the ban went away....I bought an AR. Same one hung unsold for a year while they couldn't keep an AR (and I'm an AR hater). Same for the f2000 that hung beside it.

A buddy of mine bought a Tavor and tried to use it and like it but it ended up in the safe too. Mostly because the trigger was horrific. Lol. That and the weird reloads.

 

[Dr T]

I recall first seeing a bullpup in a gun magazine in the 1960's when I was a teenager. At that time, the scribes were hailing them as "THE GUN OF THE FUTURE!!!!"

I guess they still are.

 

[Nature Boy]

All I can say for certain is they aren’t in my future

 

[Ironicaintit]

The only one I have interest in is a Bushmaster Arm Pistol. They're freakin neato, and I'd like to mount a RDS on one. Then fix their infamous reliability issues

 

[frozenalive224]

That's a pretty sophisticated looking firearm.

If it could talk I think it would be quoting that scene from Alien Resurrection.

 

[12Bravo20]

One downfall to most bullpup rifles is the horrible triggers. Another downfall is not all bullpups are designed to be ambidextrous or easily swapped for right hand or left hand use. I got to shoot the British L85 and the Aug while stationed in Germany, I was not impressed with either one and both had horrible triggers.

 

[jmorris]

These guys thought so.

 

[chicharrones]

If it could talk I think it would be quoting that scene from Alien Resurrection.

1st post in nearly 14 years.

Glad to see you that you've thawed out @frozenalive224 .

 

[jmorris]

All of the bullpup rifles I have shot (except my 50 BMG) have had crummy triggers but they don’t have to.

Remington figured out how to move the trigger forward and remain fantastic 60 years ago.

 

[ECVMatt]

I think the only way bullpups become the way of the future is through the use of a flux capacitor.

They have been around long enough to have become mainstream, but for all of the reasons previously listed, have never quite caught on.

Even with pistol braces in question, I can't see them overtaking conventional designs. They can definitely take us back to the 80's, but I don't see them taking us into the future.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

All of the bullpup rifles I have shot (except my 50 BMG) have had crummy triggers but they don’t have to.

Remington figured out how to move the trigger forward and remain fantastic 60 years ago.

View attachment 1156741

That's the first time I've seen an exploded view of the XP-100.

They put a counter-balance on the trigger linkage to achieve a good feel. Interesting.

But not practical for a military rifle. Just something else to clog up with mud, or lose whilst trying to free up under pressure.

 

[Ignition Override]

Possibly.

But “Sgt. Saunders, Cage, Kirby”, Steve McQueen and Yul Brynner types are still my Only Future.

 

[lysanderxiii]

That's the first time I've seen an exploded view of the XP-100.

They put a counter-balance on the trigger linkage to achieve a good feel. Interesting.

But not practical for a military rifle. Just something else to clog up with mud, or lose whilst trying to free up under pressure.

Actually, the trigger balance is there only to keep the trigger from moving if the pistol is dropped. According to some, it has no effect on the trigger feel, according to others, it has a detrimental effect on the trigger feel, and so remove it.

Either way, it doesn't help the trigger pull.

 

[chicharrones]

Actually, the trigger balance is there only to keep the trigger from moving if the pistol is dropped. According to some, it has no effect on the trigger feel, according to others, it has a detrimental effect on the trigger feel, and so remove it.

Either way, it doesn't help the trigger pull.

So, it adds pressure on the trigger bar to keep the sear engaged?

 

[trekker73]

two of the problems with bullpups is muzzle flash and noise. They kill night vision better than any other gun type with that muzzle so close to your face. Hunting it dont matter but tactically this one was of the issues.

Similarly the blast of a 223 which in a short barrel 223 is bad enough is even closer to your ears in a bullpup and often the ejection port where another part of the sound escapes is not in front of your face like with a regular rifle, in a bullpup its right underneath your ear. You can ask aussie soldiers what they think of using them the last 30 years, just remember to ask real loud..

 

[jmorris]

You can ask aussie soldiers what they think of using them the last 30 years, just remember to ask real loud..

The French have been using them since ‘78.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS

 

[Nature Boy]

The French have been using them since ‘78.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS

They must be easier to drop

 

[lysanderxiii]

So, it adds pressure on the trigger bar to keep the sear engaged?

I don't know how it is supposed to work. All I know is Remington's literature said that it was to improve the safety of the pistol in case it was dropped, and not to remove it.

 

[Varminterror]

Pertaining to the XP-100 linkage triggers:

1) The “counterweight” doesn’t improve trigger feel.

2) The XP-100 trigger is “good,” and certainly better than most bullpup triggers, but among Rem 700 triggers, it’s still a dog compared to what is possible, or even what is common out there. The XP-100 also doesn’t have the burden of wrapping around any other action features - it’s a narrow, solid, rigid trigger bar running straight down the centerline of the stock. Most bullpup trigger links will be something either more like a wire tuning fork or just a flat bar, so you end up with a lot of lateral force translation, flexion, asymmetric torque, etc. An XP-100 type trigger would work for a single shot bullpup, I suppose, but I’m not sure how much market interest there would be…

XP-100 stamped, structured linkage:


Keltec linkage:


Styr Aug linkage:



Tavor X95 linkage:

 

[tark]

Part of what has dazzled me. My AUG put 3 shots in little more than half an inch at 75 yards, though it does have a low powered optic. I got bragging rights(for a similar group) out of an iron sighted M16A1 replica, too, but it was easier with glass. Both were done with standard military loads.
BTW, the factory spring kit for the trigger pack brings the trigger pull to something easier to use.
Moon

I remember a bunch of guys that shot "dimes" at a hundred yards. Tape the dime in the center of the X ring. Take your shot and check your targets. If your dime was still there you were eliminated. The guy with the AUG I shot won a lot of those matches. He beat a lot of H-BARS with that gun.

 

[CapnMac]

The French have been using them since ‘78.

And are replacing them with HK416s as of near ten years ago.
Which is mostly due to France shuttering their national armories--that and they never really found a great way to mount optical sights on le clarion.

FAMAS remains a really decent example of what a good bullpup can be. Is the Bugle a great bullpup? Hard call. It's like an electric sportscar. good within a specific envelope to a relatively narrow use. 500HP two-seater will not be handy for hauling half the tot team to soccer practice.
Low and slow and sure and certain do have a place in the world.

Desert Tech MDR in 6.5 is a very slick bit of gear. It's very ambi. The "gates" that go on the ejection ports are very fussy though, and will likely be lost in the field quickly. Now, the ejection angle is forward enough to no really need the gates--all they really do is ensure loose brass only exits in the one direction. MDR would need a ton more dust covers if in military service.

Now, get the Croatians to build a "Hellion" in 6.5 or 6arc--that might be very interesting. If no where near inexpensive.