ScareyH22A
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Learn something everyday. =D
Still no grip safety. =P
Still no grip safety. =P
Are HK's just as reliable as Glocks?
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Dan Crocker
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Nope, no grip safety. I don't get why people gripe about it, either. It never bothers me when I shoot my XD. I guess maybe if something occurred and you weren't able to get a proper grip on your gun it would be an issue, but that really stretches my imagination.
To the OP, no gun is bulletproof. No gun is 100 percent reliable. NO GUN. Glocks choke regularly. I see it often in competition. Glocks also run great a lot of the time. HKs choke too. They also run great a lot of the time. HK USPs are at least as reliable as Glocks. I cannot speak for the other HK models as I have little experience with them. Regards.
A story on another forum from another PD who has had nothing but problems with their Glock .40s.
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1931084651/m/481101302
Many PDs have dropped Glock to go to Sigs, MnPs, and others as the Glock .40s have been junk. The worst part about it however has been Glocks total lack of response to the problem. As mentioned, I know a mid sized dept that dropped Glock and went to Sigs. What really broke the straw for them was not so much the guns were having issues (because ANY gun can have issues) but the fact Glock refused to admit the problem and blamed it on them.
I also know a small dept that had some issues with a batch of MnPs. However, S&W made it right and made it right pronto, and the PD was happy and went on their merry way.
If I was stuck with a plastic gun, I would take an SA XD or MnP over a Glock in a heart beat, not just because they are better guns (and they are) but because if i do have issues (and lets repeat one more time, any gun can have issues) both SA and S&W have second to none customer service.
Lucky for me, I am not stuck with a plastic gun, and don't have to make that choice.
Carry on....
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1931084651/m/481101302
Many PDs have dropped Glock to go to Sigs, MnPs, and others as the Glock .40s have been junk. The worst part about it however has been Glocks total lack of response to the problem. As mentioned, I know a mid sized dept that dropped Glock and went to Sigs. What really broke the straw for them was not so much the guns were having issues (because ANY gun can have issues) but the fact Glock refused to admit the problem and blamed it on them.
I also know a small dept that had some issues with a batch of MnPs. However, S&W made it right and made it right pronto, and the PD was happy and went on their merry way.
If I was stuck with a plastic gun, I would take an SA XD or MnP over a Glock in a heart beat, not just because they are better guns (and they are) but because if i do have issues (and lets repeat one more time, any gun can have issues) both SA and S&W have second to none customer service.
Lucky for me, I am not stuck with a plastic gun, and don't have to make that choice.
Carry on....
Zerodefect
member
or maybe it really was the PD's fault........regular .40 Glock problems.....riiiiiiiight.
Why exactly are the xd and m&p "Glock copies" better again? I must have missed why last time I shot the xd.
I welcome any pistol that is smaller, more reliable, smooth sided, and offers the capacity of the Glock in 9mm, .357, or .40. I just haven't found one yet, other than 1911"s. (in the fullsize .45 catagory of course.)
Why exactly are the xd and m&p "Glock copies" better again? I must have missed why last time I shot the xd.
I welcome any pistol that is smaller, more reliable, smooth sided, and offers the capacity of the Glock in 9mm, .357, or .40. I just haven't found one yet, other than 1911"s. (in the fullsize .45 catagory of course.)
"or maybe it really was the PD's fault........regular .40 Glock problems.....riiiiiiiight"
Right is correct. That's exactly what has happened and why various PDs have dropped the Glock and gone to other (better designed) guns. If you think they are all caused by the PDs, that's your business. Denial, it's a great tool...
Right is correct. That's exactly what has happened and why various PDs have dropped the Glock and gone to other (better designed) guns. If you think they are all caused by the PDs, that's your business. Denial, it's a great tool...
oneounceload
member
And who needs one? I have Glocks and H&K P7's - no manual safeties at all......which is perfect for a gun used where every millisecond counts and having more mechanical things that can break or fail are not needed. If your safety isn't between your ears, then use a baseball bat - oh wait, no grip safety there either.....nevermind
No doubt about it. I think H&Ks are more reliable than Glocks. In the past few years I've owned two Glock 19s, a 27, and a 26. These days, however, I'm glock-less I now own a USP .40 Compact and a P2000sk 9mm. I believe my H&Ks are far superior to my Glocks in every way, but definitely the reliability department. My Glocks were reliable when they were cleaned and lubed (except one of the glock 19s), but I did experience some FTE malfunctions once they got a little dirty (ie a few hundred rounds without cleaning) or when I started rapid firing. They are easy to limpwrist and I think that's what happens when I rapid fire since it's usually a stovepipe jam. Glocks have a very extreme grip angle that make them more difficult to shoot than other guns.
I can't get my H&Ks to malfunction if I tried. Both my USPc and P2000sk have been 100% reliable since the very first round. I can go 500 rounds without a cleaning and I still know my H&K will feed, shoot, and eject the round without a hiccup.
Don't get me wrong here. Glocks are great guns for the money and they are reliable for most people. But if it was head to head and I had to choose between a dirty/heavily used Glock or H&K when my life depended on it, you can bet that I'd go with the H&K every time. I also happen to shoot them better and think they are more accurate, but then again they cost $300 more than a Glock. Some folks don't think H&Ks are $300 better, but I think they are. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
I now own a USP .40 Compact and a P2000sk 9mm. I believe my H&Ks are far superior to my Glocks in every way, but definitely the reliability department. My Glocks were reliable when they were cleaned and lubed (except one of the glock 19s), but I did experience some FTE malfunctions once they got a little dirty (ie a few hundred rounds without cleaning) or when I started rapid firing. They are easy to limpwrist and I think that's what happens when I rapid fire since it's usually a stovepipe jam. Glocks have a very extreme grip angle that make them more difficult to shoot than other guns.I can't get my H&Ks to malfunction if I tried. Both my USPc and P2000sk have been 100% reliable since the very first round. I can go 500 rounds without a cleaning and I still know my H&K will feed, shoot, and eject the round without a hiccup.
Don't get me wrong here. Glocks are great guns for the money and they are reliable for most people. But if it was head to head and I had to choose between a dirty/heavily used Glock or H&K when my life depended on it, you can bet that I'd go with the H&K every time. I also happen to shoot them better and think they are more accurate, but then again they cost $300 more than a Glock. Some folks don't think H&Ks are $300 better, but I think they are. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
ScareyH22A
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And who needs one? I have Glocks and H&K P7's - no manual safeties at all......which is perfect for a gun used where every millisecond counts and having more mechanical things that can break or fail are not needed. If your safety isn't between your ears, then use a baseball bat - oh wait, no grip safety there either.....nevermind
Too bad you have no idea how unintrusive it is for added safety.
Too bad you have no idea how unintrusive it is for added safety.
Big Daddy Grim
Member
H&K is very dependable my Glock failed before my USP ,but I will add Glock was very good about fixing the problem.
scarey,they are unabtrusive, unless your groggy(half asleep),or already wounded,or maybe your hands are already damaged or bloody from fighing off a knife or blunt object.or maybe just plain old panic.predaters aren't all stupid,you have to take into account that you might get no warning before extreme violence.have you ever heard the term suicide switch?
ScareyH22A
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I don't know how you fire your pistol but I have to place a closed hand on the grip to pull the trigger, it's just the mechanics of it all. I have yet to master The Force to hold the pistol in midair while pulling the trigger with my index finger. So I have to have something behind the grip to hold the gun in place while pulling the trigger. And whatever is in place behind the trigger, tends to push the grip safety into the grip. Two opposing forces make for a safer carry and pulling the trigger requires an opposing force on the grip. No way around it. Sorry if I came off condescendingly, I just got done locating some ammo and realized that I should pass them down to some buds that are dry. =(
After putting about 5000 rounds (some of them low quality reloads) through the USP and about 1000 rounds (all factory/high quality reloads) through the G20, the USP has yet to have any malfunctions. Zero. It has ate everything without so much as thinking about a hiccup. The glock on the other hand has had two malfunctions. One was a failure to feed properly, and the other was what I think was a light primer strike. It happened to a friend who was shooting with me; he pulled the trigger, the gun went click, and after making him hold it down range for a minute, we took a look at the failed bullet. It indeed had a mark on the primer, although it did look a little shallow, so I threw it back in the gun and this time it went off no problems. No other issues so far, so I wonder if maybe the primer was harder than it should have been or if the strike was weak for some reason.
Anyway, from my own experience, I've had 5000 trigger pulls and 5000 bangs from a USP, while I've had 1001 trigger pulls and 999 bangs from a G20. Clean, I'll have to award the reliability prize to HK for now. It might be a different story if both pistols were packed full of mud, then I'd have to lean more toward glock mostly because of what I saw from that one guy who tortured his glock with stuff like airplane drops. Hope this helps!
Anyway, from my own experience, I've had 5000 trigger pulls and 5000 bangs from a USP, while I've had 1001 trigger pulls and 999 bangs from a G20. Clean, I'll have to award the reliability prize to HK for now. It might be a different story if both pistols were packed full of mud, then I'd have to lean more toward glock mostly because of what I saw from that one guy who tortured his glock with stuff like airplane drops. Hope this helps!
ScareyH22A
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No worries. Anytime I can have an interesting convo with another gun enthusiast is a good day =)
As for my USP experience, with the completion of another 300rds of WWB last night, I officially shot 2K of lead down range without a single hiccup. I have to say that the USPf9 has been a non-issue, no brainer of a gun to shoot. I do clean and oil it after every range session though as so shouls anyone who wants to use their weapon as a self defense piece. And as for shooting "X" thousands of rounds straight, without cleaning, that's just ridiculous. What does that prove? That would never happen in real life, except if hoards of zombies were reigning down on you... which we all know is very plausible. But it doesn't take much to foul up crud behind the extractor to have a FTE.
And smaller pistols with stiff recoil springs designed to shoot high powered combat loads may get a stovepipe with relatively weak range ammo. It doesn't mean that the gun would've actually had a hiccup if one was to use good ammo.
My friend's USPc9 had 3 FTF's during the first 100rds using UMC FMJ range ammo and I thought it was "unusual for an HK" and my friend's excitement for his first pistol started to fade quickly until someone said, "that gun you have there is designed for duty. It wasn't geared to shoot weak ammo. It would've never happened with an SD load." Made complete sense. So... I usually don't blame failures until I find out what ammo they were using. WWB has never caused a problem btw. He stopped his UMC bulk pack after the last ejection failure and switched to WWB and it spit out every load. Now that its broken in, it eats up UMC's just as well.
As for my USP experience, with the completion of another 300rds of WWB last night, I officially shot 2K of lead down range without a single hiccup. I have to say that the USPf9 has been a non-issue, no brainer of a gun to shoot. I do clean and oil it after every range session though as so shouls anyone who wants to use their weapon as a self defense piece. And as for shooting "X" thousands of rounds straight, without cleaning, that's just ridiculous. What does that prove? That would never happen in real life, except if hoards of zombies were reigning down on you... which we all know is very plausible. But it doesn't take much to foul up crud behind the extractor to have a FTE.
And smaller pistols with stiff recoil springs designed to shoot high powered combat loads may get a stovepipe with relatively weak range ammo. It doesn't mean that the gun would've actually had a hiccup if one was to use good ammo.
My friend's USPc9 had 3 FTF's during the first 100rds using UMC FMJ range ammo and I thought it was "unusual for an HK" and my friend's excitement for his first pistol started to fade quickly until someone said, "that gun you have there is designed for duty. It wasn't geared to shoot weak ammo. It would've never happened with an SD load." Made complete sense. So... I usually don't blame failures until I find out what ammo they were using. WWB has never caused a problem btw. He stopped his UMC bulk pack after the last ejection failure and switched to WWB and it spit out every load. Now that its broken in, it eats up UMC's just as well.
Dan Crocker
Member
You should work on it. Using the Force is stepping into a larger world...ha! I completely agree, it stretches my imagination to see how you could really hold an XD or 1911 and make it not work. I know you could do it on purpose...
I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the argument against the 'sqeeze-cocker' on the HK. Now I've never used one, but it would seem to me that this would be a gun where a proper grip would be absolutely neccessary to ensure it to work, much more than the little grip safety on the back of the 1911 or XD. I know that it's a fantastic little gun that most people seem to absolutely love. Thoughts?
CountGlockula
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I like post #18:
ScareyH22A
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I don't think many HK owner will agree. My HK feels 10X better built and engineered than my Kahr PM9. But the Kahr does it's job. I can get from point A to point B in a Toyota but it's more enjoyable in a Lexus. That being said, I own both a Toyota and a Lexus. And will soon be purchasing a Glock.
The USP40 kB!s
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/tapioca.html
Even the most rugged gun is vulnerable to "gunshow reloads"
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/tapioca.html
Even the most rugged gun is vulnerable to "gunshow reloads"
ScareyH22A
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Another reason why I would skip from a 9 to a .45 =P
ScareyH22A
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Oh shoot!
Lol! Look at it this way, a quality gun is a quality gun despite who made it and regardless, they are all made of similar materials. So if excessive pressures are introduced into any of them, they will blow.
I am fairly new to guns and learning alot but I am not new to working with materials, I was a precision Aerospace prototype machinist for years. I personally believe that H&K, Glock, Sig and others make some good quality guns and the only differences to me would be their innovations of the designs themselves. Basically none of them are using magic materials that defy physics in the event of a mishap.
I personally chose a Glock because my biggest concern was reliability and durability from corrosion. Even still I know under the right conditions my Glock could fail as any gun could. Basically it is IMO a good gun for my needs.
However I like alot of other brands and actually may look into getting an H&K or Sig down the road to compliment my Glock. Anyway people should look at what they are buying the gun for and how it fits their needs without expecting any one name brand to be magicically better than all the rest because that just doesn't exist.
I am fairly new to guns and learning alot but I am not new to working with materials, I was a precision Aerospace prototype machinist for years. I personally believe that H&K, Glock, Sig and others make some good quality guns and the only differences to me would be their innovations of the designs themselves. Basically none of them are using magic materials that defy physics in the event of a mishap.
I personally chose a Glock because my biggest concern was reliability and durability from corrosion. Even still I know under the right conditions my Glock could fail as any gun could. Basically it is IMO a good gun for my needs.
However I like alot of other brands and actually may look into getting an H&K or Sig down the road to compliment my Glock. Anyway people should look at what they are buying the gun for and how it fits their needs without expecting any one name brand to be magicically better than all the rest because that just doesn't exist.
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