are patrol carbines and tazers phasing out shotguns in law enforcement?

[Kevin Rohrer]

Shotguns went the way of the Dodo ever since the North Hollywood Bank Shootout. Every department in my area dumped shotguns and now carry ARs and M16s in their cruisers. I carry a confiscated AR15A2 HB. It's a tack driver, but a bit heavy.

 

[beehlebf]

Do most officers get issued carbines or buy them themaelves. I know our local county sheriff has full auto m4s do they carry them idk.

 

[gunnutery]

I would say yes AND no.

Here in Iowa, rifles are making a huge splash into the law enforcement scene and it's the goal of the firearms instructor at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy to get a rifle in every squad car in Iowa. I have no idea how close to meeting that goal he is, but it's gaining momentum.

On the other hand, there are still officers that don't give a hoot about a rifle and would much prefer the shotgun.

I see this as a good thing though. As long as you can have force in numbers when addressing a lethal force incident, the different weapons can each bring their strong suits to the fight and their deficencies can be filled by the next guy over with a different weapon system. As long as the individual officers are choosing the weapon that they feel most comfortable and proficient with they stand a good chance of survival. Though we could still do everything "right" and still lose, because law enforcement is reactionary.

 

[dprice3844444]

well it's nice to have a choice for different situations,plus with shotgun/rifle in the car,gives you an extra weapons if you happen to have a 2 man car or a trainee.some usually have a second shotgun with bright colored stock/forend to designate as a bean bag gun.you can always bring both to a situation.

 

[TenRingGuns.com]

Shotguns haven't been used for years, primarily since the North Hollywood shootout; although there is the rare exception now and then.

 

[SWAT1911]

Our towns dept, the cruisers all have both an AR and a shotgun.
Each one has advantages in respective areas. They are tools and one tool is not good for everything. Situation dictating you have either tool at your disposal.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Shotguns haven't been used for years, primarily since the North Hollywood shootout; although there is the rare exception now and then.

They aren't that uncommon. My city's PD has 870s in the cruisers and M14s in the armory.

 

[kd7nqb]

while I don't work in Law Enforcement I do with with law enforcement very closely on a daily basis. Here is what I have seen.

-a big reason some of the cops like the AR's is the intimidtion factor many in the public assume them to be "machine guns"
-Both the rifle and the shotgun have a place
-many departments even the ones who allow officers to use personally owned side arms prohibit personal long guns. I feel that this is a mistake but I understand the reasons. I feel the best equipped crusier would have an AR with 5 30nd mags and a 12 gauge pump. But I also think that the trunk or cargo area should have 3-5 different types of 12 gauge ammo slugs, buckshot, maybe even some #8 shot and some less lethal options. Train the officers on their use and how to tell the difference and now they have a full toolbox of options.

 

[Paris]

What exactly is a "patrol rifle"? Is that like a "patrol shotgun" or a "patrol sidearm"?

I don't understand the need to put monikers on everything.

 

[Mr.454]

I live in a rural area and our local sheriff cruisers have bot a shotgun and an AR. I have to agree with some of the previous posters that shotguns should never disappear from police standard equipment. From a distance sure the 5.56 is nice in a stand off but if talk to combat vets it just doesn't perform that well. If you are going to be an arms length away you dont want to have a rifle that may take 5-10 rounds to put someone down. 00 buck is just some much better up close in my opinion.

 

[goste]

My small Dept. allows the use of both. The Dept. issues Mossberg 500's, and surplus
m14s, or AR15s. We can use the Dept, issue, or supply our own,if we like. Most of the time, I only carry a shotgun, my own Rem. model 11 riot, sometimes also my own Winchester 94 .44mag. Wrangler. but not often,

I see the Tazer more and more, inching out OC spray, and impact Batons.

But, I am seeing more and more Officers, in our Dept, and others in surrounding Dept. foregoing the use of a shotgun. Guess I'm old fashion, If I had to choose one, it would be the shotgun.....

 

[Neverwinter]

From a distance sure the 5.56 is nice in a stand off but if talk to combat vets it just doesn't perform that well. If you are going to be an arms length away you dont want to have a rifle that may take 5-10 rounds to put someone down.

Are there agencies that still issue ball rounds?

Sent from Tapatalk

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I live in a rural area and our local sheriff cruisers have bot a shotgun and an AR. I have to agree with some of the previous posters that shotguns should never disappear from police standard equipment. From a distance sure the 5.56 is nice in a stand off but if talk to combat vets it just doesn't perform that well. If you are going to be an arms length away you dont want to have a rifle that may take 5-10 rounds to put someone down. 00 buck is just some much better up close in my opinion.

The only Veterans I've heard say that 5.56 x 45 is inadequate were ones that didn't even see combat. I've heard from actual combat veterans about it being effective out to 300 yards where then it starts lacking which I do believe but a lot of that comes down to the marksmanship of the soldier shooting it.

Are there agencies that still issue ball rounds?

I wouldn't use M855 for LE work personally because of risk of over penetration and would rather use Hornady TAP rounds.

M855 and what it will do in BG tests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGgojSI62pI&feature=fvwrel

 

[Nushif]

Any clue on how many departments actually own, train with, issue, or ever deploy bean-bag rounds? I don't think it's very many. Tasers appear on the duty belts of nearly every officer. Beanbag rounds are extremely special-purpose items.

The only people I know who regularly do beanbag rounds are actually prison guards. They also use those nasty Hornet's Nest rounds.

If you are going to be an arms length away you dont want to have a rifle that may take 5-10 rounds to put someone down.

Coming from a military background, standing at arms length with a rifle is bad tactics in the first place, I would hardly condemn a spade for not being a crowbar. One of my fondest training memories is giving a guy a bruise on the jaw with the stock of his own gun.

 

[KenW.]

It'll be a cold day in hades when I turn in my Mossberg 500.
And I am issued a Rock River AR and TASER X-26.

 

[Mr.454]

Please don't get butthurt over the 5.56 we have the 6.8 now. As far as combat vets loving the 5.56 you have to be joking do some reasearch or talk to a vet. As far as defending my previous statements we ask police to do too much already. They need all the tools you can give them in their cruisers so shotgun, and carbine. If you have to go into a house a shotgun would be perfect for close quarters. I you have to deal with a poacher out here you will want a carbine. I get ticked off listening to one of my cousins talk about his departments lack of equipment. Officers have to buy most of their own equipment for the SRT team so they can raid meth labs. I would love to see our officers carrying .308s and what ever else they would like. Police and teachers under paid, and under appreciated. Done with my rant carry on.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

As far as combat vets loving the 5.56 you have to be joking do some reasearch or talk to a vet.

What makes you think that I haven't? Because I disagree with what you said? I'm not just speaking from propaganda, I know two Navy Corpsmen that saw combat and they don't complain about the round. There's also a reason why Russia first laughed at 5.56 when it first came out, then tried to get it banned under the Geneva convention, then developed their own "weak" round. Navy SEALs can carry .308s as they have SCAR-Hs in their inventories and yet most still elect to carry 5.56 chambered firearms. The ones that do carry .308s are usually doing so to have the added range where 5.56 starts to lack (300 yards plus).

I would love to see our officers carrying .308s and what ever else they would like.

Me too! Who cares about over penetration anyway?

 

[monet61]

Having left LE prior to departments (rural) going to carbines, I have to say that in my career, I saw a lot of situations that ended well BECAUSE of the shotgun. We were allowed to carry rifles in the trunk, but please understand that they weren't carbines in the modern sense. I carried my M1 carbine. Another deputy carried his M1 Garand. I believe that the shotgun is losing ground, but IMHO, a shotgun can be an excellent deterent. I would think it safer, in the OP issue, than a carbine is. Especially in an urban area.YMMV.