are some people just victims no matter what?

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anthillsinrome

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My girlfriend seems to have a problem standing up for herself. Like so many in our society, she chooses to be nice or polite, instead of protecting herself.

The thing is, is that I know she's a sweet and kind person, but I feel like there's (another) tragedy waiting to happen. When I wasn't with her, she was...victimized (if I get into details I'll just get sick to my stomach). Weird guys tend to gravitate towards her at work and at school, and she says that she is simply unable to be a bitch and give them the hint that she's taken, and doesn't want to be emailed and called and pestered for dates and attention.

Now half of me says I should rush to her defense, find whatever guy is currently hounding her (right now it's some guy in her Bio class), and tell him that I'm going to be wiping the floor with his spleen if he doesn't back off. But the other half wonders why I should fight her fight, why I should risk myself, for this. She's an adult and can make the conscious choice of whether to allow herself to be a victim again...

I guess I just need to post this because I feel like she's on a one-way track to disaster. People always take advantage of her, and I've tried far too much, to zero avail, to change her mentality. She calls me paranoid, but I try to convince her (not hound her, but give well-reasoned, rational arguments) why it's for the best that she shrug off the nicey nice stuff and start standing up for herself in any doubtful situation.

Am I coward if I let things go on as they are, and she gets assaulted or threatened or whatever and all I can say is "Well, you could've put a stop to this long ago but chose not to..."??


I feel like this is a wonderful country that is safe compared to most others, but so many around me choose the easier path of willful ignorance that I can't help but come on THR and talk to people who understand that danger stays its hand for no one. Should I have her read a book on the issue? She doesn't like guns much, won't carry self-defense tools like mace, and shrugs off my suggestions that she needs to start focusing on some kind of self-defense strategy. She's going to school at a liberal university and is, in general, very liberal.

And if you feel like this relationship is just going bad places, and it usually feels like it is, then tell me - I won't be angry. Im not sure if Im being a coward by bowing out, or by staying around and not doing something quick. I don't think I could handle something happening to her again, without doing something about it.
 
Dude, you're in Cheyenne, WY. It's probably hard for her to imagine herself being carjacked or gang-raped by the local Crips. Is she a native?

And yes, some people are victims by choice.

Why would any Jew be anything but a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment?

As the son of two survivors of the Nazi regime, I am at a loss to understand anti-gun Jews!
 
I guess I just need to post this because I feel like she's on a one-way track to disaster. People always take advantage of her, and I've tried far too much, to zero avail, to change her mentality. She calls me paranoid,
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You've done what you can. You won't always be around to protect her. Like you said, she's an adult, she makes adult choices, she'll have to live with the consequences of those choices. It's harsh, but it's life. Until she wants to take her own safety seriously, she won't, no matter what you do or say.
And if you feel like this relationship is just going bad places, and it usually feels like it is, then tell me - I won't be angry.
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I think you just answered your own question there, my friend.
 
Welcome to THR.

The only thing I can think to say is (IMO) that if your girlfriend does nothing to protect herself then yes she will be a victim. Unfortunely it does take being a victim for some people to understand that thier own safety depends on them.

And if you feel like this relationship is just going bad places, and it usually feels like it is, then tell me
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At least it seems to me that you answered your own question. We (THR members) can offer advice and support, but what you do about it is up to you and you only

Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling on here. I'm just trying to find a way to express what I think from what you've said.

Best of luck,

Jay
 
I think it was Lewis Awerbuck who said, "There are no victims,...only volunteers."

Actually, I think if you have the opportunity to study your girlfriend's mother, you will find that mom is a placating, non-confrontational type of person.

Pilgrim
 
are some people just victims no matter what?
There are some people who seem determined to be. Your girlfriend just might be one of them.
My girlfriend seems to have a problem standing up for herself.
Why should she stand up for herself when you're around to do it for her?
Like so many in our society, she chooses to be nice or polite, instead of protecting herself.
People can be nice & polite without sacrificing defensive capabilities. We gun folk do it all the time.
The thing is, is that I know she's a sweet and kind person, but I feel like there's (another) tragedy waiting to happen.
Trust your instincts.
When I wasn't with her, she was...victimized (if I get into details I'll just get sick to my stomach).
The wisest among us learn from the mistakes & misfortunes of others. For others, it takes just one incident to cause change. If her previous victimization didn't cause her to take self-defense seriously, what would?
Weird guys tend to gravitate towards her at work and at school, and she says that she is simply unable to be a bitch and give them the hint that she's taken, and doesn't want to be emailed and called and pestered for dates and attention.
Then they have no reason to stop giving her their creepy attention.
Now half of me says I should rush to her defense, find whatever guy is currently hounding her (right now it's some guy in her Bio class), and tell him that I'm going to be wiping the floor with his spleen if he doesn't back off.
I'm sorry, but that seems like that's the job you were picked for.
But the other half wonders why I should fight her fight, why I should risk myself, for this. She's an adult and can make the conscious choice of whether to allow herself to be a victim again...
There are decisions here to be made: do you want to be her boyfriend or bodyguard? Do you want an adult girlfriend or someone who needs constant looking after, rescuing & defending?
I guess I just need to post this because I feel like she's on a one-way track to disaster. People always take advantage of her, and I've tried far too much, to zero avail, to change her mentality.
Only she can change her mindset, and it doesn't look like she wants to.
Am I coward if I let things go on as they are, and she gets assaulted or threatened or whatever and all I can say is "Well, you could've put a stop to this long ago but chose not to..."??
I don't think you're a coward, just tired of getting nowhere with her when it comes to defense.
She doesn't like guns much, won't carry self-defense tools like mace, and shrugs off my suggestions that she needs to start focusing on some kind of self-defense strategy.
Do you have any female friends with defensive mindsets whom she can talk to? Would she listen to them? To me it seems like she doesn't want to be bothered with the petty details of her own survival, that's your job. I hope this isn't the case, but…
And if you feel like this relationship is just going bad places, and it usually feels like it is, then tell me - I won't be angry.
Again, trust your instincts. And to continue being repetitious: are you her boyfriend or bodyguard?
 
If there weren't an abundance of prey, all the predators would soon be out of luck...........

Do you want to wind up as boyfriend, and perhaps a husband, or do you like working as a shepherd?

Before you get mad at me, I know of a few guys who not only chose to work as shepherds, they purposefully looked for women who needed shepherds.

Some of those relationships are still plugging along. Some of them ended in disaster.

Being a shepherd is not my bag, but I know some guys like that.

hillbilly
 
I can relate your situation to a situation I was in. I had a g/f that really thought the world was safe, and why on earth would anyone try to harm her, was her mentality. I suppose she felt safe when around me (I am a very tall and strong guy) so she felt as though she was fine when I wasn't around. The fact is, after a while I didn't like being the bodyguard. When I wasn't around her I did worry for her saftey, after all she was a attractive lady, and at 5'2" she couldn't put up much of a fight against a typical male. I tried to get her self defense training at the gym I go to, I gave her pepper spray, I mean I really tried everything. Nothing really worked, and in the end it played a major role in the breakup.

I like to know my loved ones are safe when I am not with them. With my ex, there was just nothing I could do. I would place her in the category of "future victim". Its not that she attracted bad attention, but her lack of common sense and concern about her own saftey would make her easy prey.
 
What Hillbilly said...

Being a shepherd can really be an ego booster - at first - for a while - but then it can get real old, very tiresome real fast.

Better think real hard about what you're getting into because once you're in, cutting the cord if you eventually decide it's too short and too tight, can be very difficult if you've got any kind of heart at all.
 
Werewolf said:
Being a shepherd can really be an ego booster - at first - for a while - but then it can get real old, very tiresome real fast.

Better think real hard about what you're getting into because once you're in, cutting the cord if you eventually decide it's too short and too tight, can be very difficult if you've got any kind of heart at all.
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Exactly right. In my case I cut the cord early, had I waited 2 months more or longer, it might have been a lot worse.
 
Since she cannot bring herself to tell them no, you have no business even thinking about wiping the floor with them. They may think they are being perfectly charming. If she hasn't let them know that their attention isn't wanted, the most you should consider is politely pointing out them that she's off the market, without even a hint of a threat.
 
pax

It might help her to read the collected works of pax on this forum.
Especially her post on defensive mind set.
Good luck.
 
you've described more or less a predicament i have.mostly on these points:
Like so many in our society, she chooses to be nice or polite, instead of protecting herself.

eird guys tend to gravitate towards her at work and at school, and she says that she is simply unable to be a bitch...

and i fear this happening:
and she gets assaulted or threatened or whatever and all I can say is "Well, you could've put a stop to this long ago but chose not to...

she's not exactly my girlfriend, but she's close to me.

she dosn't want to grasp the idea and concept of self defence...

"if someone started hitting me, i would just stop and ask why they're doing that"(more or less verbatim)
:banghead: :barf:

time for a Volk picture(well, a quote from one):
"humans understand, love, compassion, and kindness. - criminals understand strength."

~TMM
 
If the sheep-like people get eaten by the wolves, I usually think it is Darwin at work. The problem I have is that the left-wing politicians use the stats to disarm the honest citizens. If a wolf wins, another wolf wins too!
 
grnzbra said:
Since she cannot bring herself to tell them no, you have no business even thinking about wiping the floor with them. They may think they are being perfectly charming. If she hasn't let them know that their attention isn't wanted, the most you should consider is politely pointing out them that she's off the market, without even a hint of a threat.
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I agree
 
Sounds to me like she is one of the millions of people who psychologically have no boundaries. People sense this are run all over them. A lack of boundaries is a warning flag of other "issues."

I suggest spending money with a therapist working out the issue which cause her to forgo boundaries.
 
You are right on track.. ...

anthillsinrome Maybe you just need to hear responses that confirm what you already know. Being a victim can easily make one angry. I t seems as though she is living her life in denial of her past experience. Did she get help or counseling ?? I hope she did not just tuck it away to hide the experience. Maybe (putting all that baggage aside) losing something of value may wake her up. Does she value your relationship. That may be the test. It sounds like you don't want to enable her to continue as a victim of further opportunity and that isn't too much to expect from her in light of todays issues, not to mention any first hand negitive experiences she already endured. Unfortunately it seems like common sense to most of us but to be fair, we don't know all she has been through and if she has healed or got past it to any extent. I'm guessing not. Best of luck!
 
personally that's why I prefer not to have girlfriends

Absolutely do not worry what she does. She is an adult. If she ASKS you to "talk" to the guy, then consier how much she's worth to you and if it's worth the risk. If it is "talk" to the guy. I don't mean beat the ???? out of him either, just talk, explain to him the situation.

Usually if a person is not asking for help, they are either unconsious or don't want to be helped. That's all.

Bottom line is stop worrying, let her handle her business herself. Women are not worth putting yourself into the line of fire, due to things women do thinking it's all fun and games. If things get truely dangerous (like stalker or something) and you care about her, keep the peace readily available. That's all.
 
grnzbra said:
Since she cannot bring herself to tell them no, you have no business even thinking about wiping the floor with them. They may think they are being perfectly charming. If she hasn't let them know that their attention isn't wanted, the most you should consider is politely pointing out them that she's off the market, without even a hint of a threat.
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That's a valid point.

The replies are all excellent and kind of confirming what I halfway realized. It's nice (well, not nice actually, but comforting) to hear that others have been in the same situation. And that thread Aquaholic linked is excellent. Thank you.
 
ka50 said:
Women are not worth putting yourself into the line of fire, due to things women do thinking it's all fun and games.
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roger that. I have come close to fighting a couple times, in defense of myself, because of something a girlfriend has done. dumb broads...
 
Shrug

Ant,
One of the things that you will notice is that many of us who respond in THR have the attitude that we can offer information based on our experiences, but ultimately it is your free will to take the advice or not, just as it is your own decision to have a weapon for self-defense or not.

Having said that, my wife was clueless in terms of defending herself and was thus a person who was open to being a victim. She was not a quick study in the ways of self-defense. My attitude was that if I were going to hang around her for long, I was going to probably end up taking a bullet for her if I really cared or I had to be really quick in defending her if the stuff hit the fan in a real situation. In my practicing unarmed self-defense for many years I learned that I I could be standing four feet away from her and if things went south fast with guns being involved in the scenario I physically couldn't prevent her being injured. (Please keep in mind that I was a hard core practioner for many years). I finally accepted the fact that I had to learn to reach out and be able to defend us quickly with something that had reach and can quickly get multiple opponents to give us a fighting chance to survive.

We just hit 27 years of being married today. She now has a primary and a BUG with a folder almost always. She has had several situations in the past where if it wasn't for the presence of her personal piece, things could have escalated where she could have gotten hurt or killed in the situations that she had faced. She knows that so that is why she has learned to carry. We've had some close calls in situations in the past years though.

I still expect to catch that bullet (arill have to go through a lot of bad areas..nature of the business) but at least I know that if things get real rough when we are together, she will be next to me defending the both us just I would be for her. She is a rare treasure and after 27 years, I figure I'll keep her.

So now you get to ask yourself, are you willing to take a bullet for your girlfriend? She won't be able to defend herself for many years to come and that is only if she wants to change her attitude and start training soon.

If she doesn't want to change and defend herself..then what?

Good luck on your decision.
 
There are a number of firms that sell German Shepherds trained as protection dogs.

I reccomend that you buy her one, then sit back and see what happens.

should be an interesting learning experience, no matter what happens.

of course, dogs need attention and care, and may be expensive... where are armed sentry robots when we need them?
 
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