Are The M1 Carbine and Ruger 10/22 Related?

[freedom and guns]

I read in a Wikipedia article that the Ruger 10/22 was "patterned after" the M1 carbine. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, how? Do they share the same gas system and internal design, or do they just have similar stocks and aesthetics. I know that both rifles are accurate under 100 yds. I am posting my question here because I could not find any information on this subject anywhere else. All stories and information would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Phenom]

Whoever said that is full of s--t. Other than length the M-1 Carbine and 10/22 have nothing in common. The 10/22 series is a straight blowback system while the M-1 Carbine is gas operated.

 

[JesseL]

Due to the shape of the stock and barrel band, the original styling of the ruger 10/22 was reminsent of the M1 carbine. That is about as far as it goes.

 

[Drue]

Its just aesthetics. They look somewhat similar but are totally unrelated mechanically.

Drue

 

[ArmedBear]

Now the Mini-14/30 and the Deerfield Carbine, on the other hand, are related in their designs, but not copies in any way. Note the piston design and the slide handle. In other ways, they're really different. Aesthetics are the only real connection between the M1 and 10/22, much like the old Luger 9mm and the Ruger .22 auto pistols.

 

[freedom and guns]

Interesting.

I never knew what type of action the 10/22 used, and I was pretty sure that the m1 was more accurate, but I just wanted to know. In fact, I know little at all about 10/22's because i had never looked for info on them before. Thanks guys

 

[MrAcheson]

I read in a Wikipedia article that the Ruger 10/22 was "patterned after" the M1 carbine.

It depends upon what "patterned after" means. The 10/22 and M1 carbine are a similar size with similar ergonomics. I believe that this similarity in size and handling was deliberately part of the 10/22s design. Bill Ruger was a big fan of the M1 carbine and the 10/22 was largely "make me a semi-auto 22 that handles like the M1 carbine."

The two designs don't share any mechanical similarities that I know of and use completely different operating principles.

Now the Mini-14/30 and the Deerfield Carbine, on the other hand, are related in their designs

The current deerfield is built on a mini-14 action although some of the older models are not. They are no more related mechanically to the M1 than the 10/22 is. The mini-14 is an M-14 action shrunk down for intermediate cartridges. And cheapened considerably in the process. Other than aesthetics and ergonomics, there isn't much similarity to the m1 carbine either.

These may have had the same design concept that the 10/22 does though. "Make me a gun that handles like the M1 carbine but chamber it in common intermediate rifle calibers."

 

[ID_shooting]

This is why I never pay much attention to Wikipedia and never pay heed when somone uses it a source in a debate.

 

[freedom and guns]

When I started this thread I knew that "patterned after" could mean anything. That's why I started this thread, to see how it was "patterned after" the m1 carbine. The author of the article made the mistake of not specifying whether he meant in ergonomics or internal design.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Wikipedia gun articles tend to be extremely hit and miss, and often misleading through omission of modestly important details, etc. I tend to always take them with a grain of salt.

 

[BryanP]

Can you please link the article in question? I just finished skimming the entries for Carbine, M1 Carbine, and Ruger 10/22. I find no reference in them to one being patterned after the other.

 

[Davo]

Hey guys, since its brought up...does anyone make an aftermarket paratrooper stock for the 10-22? Seems like a cool idea.

 

[mp510]

I don't believe that anyone makes a Paratrooper Carbine stock for the 10/22 though there are folding stocks available. With enough work, a M1 Carbine paratrooper carbine stock could be fit, but that would involve serious filling and inletting work. One of the gun rag 'smiths fit a traditional M-1 Carbine stock to a 10/22 a while back.

I have always seen a basic M-1 Carbine resemblance in the 10/22, but no real mechanical similarity.

 

[ArmedBear]

The mini-14 is an M-14 action shrunk down for intermediate cartridges.

M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M-14, Mini-14/30, and current Deerfield are all very similar gas-operated designs, with a long, relatively heavy gas piston with a long operating rod running along the side of the barrel and receiver, with the slide handle on the end of it. This mechanism operates a rotating bolt that locks much like a bolt action. The track and lugs that rotate the bolt, the way the bolt is inserted into the receiver, etc., in Ruger's Minis, all of it was taken from the M1 family design.

That doesn't mean they share parts, but if you've ever cleaned a Mini-14, you'll note that the design, conceptually, was practically lifted straight from the M1 family, just like the bolt lifts out of the receiver.

This is the receiver of an M1 Carbine, which looks familiar to shooters of any of the abovementioned Rugers and USGI guns, even if they've never seen an M1 Carbine:

Contrast that with this picture of the SKS, clearly a VERY different design:

Here is an M14:

and a Garand:

This AK47 has some similarity with the SKS, but none with the M1, M1 Carbine, M14, Mini or Deerfield:

So clearly, the M1 Carbine, which was in Bill Ruger's mind when designing the look and feel, but not the action, of the 10/22, has a very close relationship to the actual design of Ruger's gas-operated guns.

 

[MrAcheson]

M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M-14, Mini-14/30, and current Deerfield are all very similar gas-operated designs

Yes the bolt design is similar on all these guns, which means that operation can be similar. But the insides of the guns vary a bit. The m-14 gas system is a little different from the Garand and very different (even in theory) from the m1 carbine.

 

[freedom and guns]

I

took the quote from an article on the ruger police carbine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Police_Carbine It's at the beggining of the 2nd paragraph.

 

[>SHOCK<^>WAVE<]

Don't always believe what you read on Wikipedia, the M1 has a locking bolt and the 10/22 doesn't, I would say that makes them totally dissimilar.

 

[gunsmith]

they are related

but it's a dysfuncitional relationship

 

[Kurac]

They are both rifles, maybe that is what the author meant.

 

[jjohnson]

"Cosmetically" and "Ergonomically" are Good Answers.

Yeah, good points. Okay, they're BOTH rifles. In most 10/22 configs, both really carbines. But "related" is a big word. They kinda sorta handle and balance similarly, just as one guy pointed out the Luger vs Ruger (but I think it really resembles a Jap Nambu much more). But Bill Ruger (Odin rest his soul) wasn't much into copying anything - and did a lot of radical things (like that *$#*& mainspring housing he put in the .22 pistol) that weren't copies of ANYTHING. The argument when we get to stuff like the mini-14 is interesting, cause using some of this logic you could say all bolt actions are copies - because most of them are very similar - but if you're asking if the 10/22 is related, MAYBE some people think it has M1 Carbine lines, but I'm not seeing it.
I've always liked them and had them for over 30 years, and don't ever recall the similarity even crossing my mind.

Oh, yeah, I do have one folding stock on a 10/22, but it doesn't look at all like the M1 Paratrooper variant. My stock is collapsible like an M3 Greasegun stock.

 

[BryanP]

Okay. The whole point of Wikipedia is that if you find an obvious mistake you can fix it. Go in and edit that paragraph. The current paragraph is:

Both the PC9 (the 9 mm version) and the PC4 (.40 S&W) are patterned after the highly successful Ruger 10/22 carbine, which was in turn patterned after the M1 Carbine. The Carbine is intended as a backup gun for police use, although it is available for sale to civilians as well. The intent is that an officer will carry a Ruger P Series pistol as a primary weapon, and keep a Carbine available as a backup weapon if needed. Since the carbine has a 16 inch barrel, it provides significantly more power with the same ammunition used by the 4 inch barreled pistol (see internal ballistics). The carbine also provides additional accuracy and range over the pistol.

However, reading that I would have to agree with an earlier poster that "patterned after" in this case is a reference to appearance and ergonomics, not mechanical function. In other words, "nothing to see here, move along."

 

[50caliber123]

I think the M1 carbine and Ruger's mini series operate on a short-stroke piston, whereas the M1 Garand and M14 operate on a long piston

 

[AZ Jeff]

I think the M1 carbine and Ruger's mini series operate on a short-stroke piston, whereas the M1 Garand and M14 operate on a long piston

Actually all four rifles use different operating systems:

Carbine --- tappet-type gas system
Garand --- direct impingement gas system
M14 --- White gas cut-off and expansion system
Mini-14 --- vented gas piston design (I don't know the name for it)

 

[freedom and guns]

Bryan

how do you expect me to edit it if I am not a member? Hmmm. I got it! I could hack in! Riiiiiiiight.

 

[JesseL]

how do you expect me to edit it if I am not a member? Hmmm. I got it! I could hack in! Riiiiiiiight.

Membership is free and it takes about 10 seconds to create an account. All you need is to create a unique user name and password, even entering your email address is optional.