Are we being selfish?

[Grandpa Shooter]

Ok, let's set some things straight right off the bat. I am not a troll. I am not trying to stir the pot. I am not trying to raise legal or constitutional issues. I am a gun owner (just agreed to buy another one). I have been on here long enough to not be a newbie anymore. I am a disabled Vet, so yes I have been there and done that.

My question came to mind as I was sitting in front of my computer searching for up to date info on a gun I am buying. Just kind of struck me.

As gun owners, pro 2A, responsible adults, are we being selfish in our adamant defense of our right to keep and bear arms? It would seem that the rest of the civilized world wants to end small arms ownership, and if you believe the polls, the rest of the US wants the same thing. If indeed we are in the minority, are we just being selfish? I see this as a moral issue, not a political one, despite the fact that it has become a hot button for so many people these days.

Anyone care to respond?

 

[hankdatank1362]

I agree it could seem that way, but only if you assume one fatal flaw...

that I actually give a rat's behind about either other nations or the "unarmed majority" of the US.




I only go through this life once. I do what it takes to keep me and mine safe to keep our time on this Earth together as long as possible. I don't care if this country was founded on the principle that guns were the tools of the Devil...


The right to self defense was given to be by God when I was born. Anyone who thinks otherwise can go pound sand.


ETA: BTW Grandpa, thanks for your service and sacrifice to us all, and helping us keep ALL our rights.

 

[AZAndy]

You use the word "selfish" like you think that's a bad thing.

;-)

A.

 

[igpoobah]

We can't help it if the rest of the world is filled with maroons. Why punish the majority for something a very small minority manages to screw up.

No we are not being selfish...

 

[junyo]

The rest of the world could vote, to a man, that I should be dead. Doesn't mean I'm going to voluntarily slit my throat.

Selfish implies that we're looking out for personal interest over the greater good. The fact is, upholding and asserting the universal right to defend oneself is the greater good. So in this case, regardless of the braying crowds, the narrow minority is correct. And, to quote Thoreau "A man more right than his neighbors, constitutes a majority of one..."

 

[Nickotym]

As I see it, it doesn't matter if we are being selfish, we are standing up for our rights.

I'm not sure I believe the polls for the simple reason that the uneducated are the ones most likely answering them. If a majority of people who don't understand something are against it, does that make them right? Kind of reminds me of the old saying my dad used to use on us: "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it too?" In the days of bungee jumping this doesn't mean the same as it did then, but it is still a valid comparison.

As far as the rest of the civilized world, I don't think the citizens there want to be unarmed, just the ruling class wants them to be unarmed.

 

[41magsnub]

I think it is the other way around. The "majority" want to take away from us something we have always had a right to that in no way affects them. For example, taking away my firearms which I have never and never would use improperly to make them feel better is the goal. Which side is being selfish?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

It's an interesting question Grandpa Shooter and one I think many folks here are afraid to or unable to discuss honestly. I think most of them will ruffle up their feathers and declare it is a God and/or Contitutionally given right and it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Sadly, that doesn't leave much room for any kind of dialogue or any kind of introspective thinking.

Edit: There were no replies when I started typing this and now there are more than a couple validating my comment above. It is an interesting discussion, particularly if you apply a little game theory, but probably not one that will make it very far here.

 

[ozwyn]

Selfish? Possibly.

but then again by the same logic sellign yourself to slavery is the ultimate act of selflessness.

Freedom is the selfish desire not to be someone else's property.
Self-defense is the selfish desire not to be a victim.
Individuality may be the selfish desire not to be ruled by the many, or perhaps rather the few who guide the many.

Maybe it is our selfish desire not to be controlled by the mainstream media, which worldwide tells people how to think by selling opinion as fact.

I'll take selfish over slavery.

 

[macFarlaine]

I think the majority of gun owners throughout the world are envious of your stance on protecting what you have,and I as an individual applaud your stance.However I do think you are a selfish nation,rarely admitting your faults and in cases believing all things great are made or are in the USA.

 

[UKTN]

I think there is an important statement question in your message "if you believe the polls" My experience is most people do not object to guns. It is a small, how be it, vocal group who object.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I think most of them will ruffle up their feathers and declare it is a God and/or Contitutionally given right and it doesn't matter what anyone else says.

But it's still true.

I've thought about it many times. Would giving up all our weapons been worth it, even if it prevented just one school shooting or mall rampage?

Unfortunately, the answer I keep re-arriving at is no. It's not worth it. I hate to sound cold and calculating, talking about people's lives as if they were just statistics, but you have to think about the greater good. A couple innocents' lives are not worth banning effective self defense for millions. Especially when the same damage could be done with a bomb, samurai sword, long sharp sticks, etc. It's about the killer, not the tool. (Like you've never heard that before.)

 

[Mannix]

Refusing to accept the prevailing group think ideals is hardly selfish, quite the opposite, really. I'm not the only one that benefits from my "selfish" defense of my rights, 2ndA related and otherwise.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

As long as there is evil in the world, as long as we need to eat, and as long as people enjoy shooting, arms ownership is needed.

 

[Megistopoda]

As gun owners, pro 2A, responsible adults, are we being selfish in our adamant defense of our right to keep and bear arms? It would seem that the rest of the civilized world wants to end small arms ownership, and if you believe the polls, the rest of the US wants the same thing. If indeed we are in the minority, are we just being selfish? I see this as a moral issue, not a political one, despite the fact that it has become a hot button for so many people these days.

Here is my short answer:

Our right to bear arms is constent with our right to be free men and women, and our lawful authority in matters regarding life and liberty. We have the right to be free just as much as we have the responsibility to be free, and exercise freedom in a just and civilized fashion. Thus, we are not being selfish in our defense of our right to remain free. It is not selfish for us to maintain our lawful citizen authority as freemen. If anything, it is wreckless and irresponsible of us to cave in and give up those rights.

Thus, not only is it not selfish to defend our rights, it is foolish and irresponsible not to do so.

 

[Mannix]

As long as there is evil in the world, as long as we need to eat, and as long as people enjoy shooting, arms ownership is needed.

Even when that is no longer true, there is no good reason why it should be banned.

 

[siglite]

Is a rabbit selfish because it runs from the cougar? Is the porcupine selfish because it quills the wolf? Is the stingray selfish when it barbs the shark? Is the rattlesnake selfish when you're bitten for treading upon it?

I suppose the will to survive can be considered "selfish" to some degree. However, I view this level of selfishness as a prerequisite for life on this planet.

 

[Telperion]

Self-interested? Yes, all of us want to keep our guns, as well as the hobby, sport, or way of life that goes along with them.

Selfish, as in advancing one's own interest ahead of others? No, because lawful gun ownership does not burden the rights of others. We demand nothing other than to be left alone.

Jorg, where does game theory enter this discussion?

 

[kurtmax]

You use the word "selfish" like you think that's a bad thing.

 

[highorder]

Selfish implies that we're looking out for personal interest over the greater good. The fact is, upholding and asserting the universal right to defend oneself is the greater good. So in this case, regardless of the braying crowds, the narrow minority is correct.

while many in this thread speak the truth, this post struck a chord with me.

+1

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Of course.

The very notion of asserting and defending our rights as INDIVIDUALS implies self-interest. Now, does the defense of our rights have any negative impact on the rights of others?

Not only no, but HELL no. In fact, quite the contrary. The fact that there are people like you and me that are willing to take some responsibility for our own safety makes everyone safer. Remember New Orleans - a large portion of the population depended entirely on the government for their safety, and the government went AWOL.

 

[springmom]

This is a really good question. The U.S. has always been about personal rights and Europe, about the collective good and the rights of the sovereign. In that sense, *all* of the Bill of Rights are "selfish", because they are designed to protect individual selves from the power of the government, from the caprice of the tyrant, from the collective whim du jour. It is selfish, from the European perspective, to have the rights we do. Selfish to proclaim that I have the right to say what I think without fear of being silenced by a majority who do not think as I do. Selfish to proclaim that I have a right to worship in a church that my conscience dictates rather than the state mandating by history and culture. Selfish to proclaim that the state has no rights to quarter soldiers in my house. Selfish to state that I do *not * have to testify against myself in a court of law.

And selfish to state that I have the right to keep and bear arms.

We made the decision in 1776 that we were not going to live our lives, as a nation, according to the philosophies and whims of Europe. What Europe, and what totalitarian regimes around the world calls "selfish", we call "freedom".

In the moral sense as we know it, however, no, I am not being selfish. I take nothing away from anyone else by my ownership of guns. If I were to invest every last penny into guns without any concern for taking care of our family, helping the poor, donating to charity....then you might be able to make the argument of selfishness, but the selfishness would center around "spending my money on myself and not caring about others", not "owning guns" per se.

Nope. No selfishness involved. And as for the rest of the world's opinion, pfft. Who cares?

Springmom

 

[macFarlaine]

Great piece on being selfish.Outdated,outmoded,as far as Europe is concerned.

 

[jgorniak]

I can see gun owners being called stubborn, or hard-headed. That doesn't make us wrong.

To me, "selfish" just doesn't fit. Not that one couldn't be selfish, but you could call me "table" and it would make just as much sense.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Ok, let's set some things straight right off the bat. I am not a troll. I am not trying to stir the pot. I am not trying to raise legal or constitutional issues. I am a gun owner (just agreed to buy another one). I have been on here long enough to not be a newbie anymore. I am a disabled Vet, so yes I have been there and done that.

My question came to mind as I was sitting in front of my computer searching for up to date info on a gun I am buying. Just kind of struck me.

As gun owners, pro 2A, responsible adults, are we being selfish in our adamant defense of our right to keep and bear arms? It would seem that the rest of the civilized world wants to end small arms ownership, and if you believe the polls, the rest of the US wants the same thing. If indeed we are in the minority, are we just being selfish? I see this as a moral issue, not a political one, despite the fact that it has become a hot button for so many people these days.

Anyone care to respond?

I'm of the frame of mind that all these rules and regulations and attempts to ban handguns or firearms aren't about safety. They aren't about saving the children or making the U.S. a safer place or lowering crime. It's about control period.

Gun control is control.

The hint of armed uprising of it's citizens scares the hell out of today's politicians, who honestly, could care less about us. They just want to make sure we aren't armed. We're easier to quell that way.

If standing up for the rights the founding fathers of this nation outlined in the Bill of Rights is selfish, then I'm guilty. But I won't lose any sleep over it.