Are we our own worst enemy?

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hso

hso

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We all acknowledge that we're in a struggle with groups that would ban firearms ownership, yet we still have gunnies that disparage women on this board. It seems that out of enlightened self-interest, if not enlightenment, those folks would realize that getting more women into shooting is the greatest way to destroy the arguments of the gun-prohibitionists. But time and time again we see everything from outright hostility to condescension to mindless use of insulting terms. Stupid alienating behavior on some folks part.

We can't grow the shooting sports without women, we can't honestly support RKBA if we don't mean it for everyone. Let's live up to the name of the place and do what we can to encourage women to get into the shooting sports and support RKBA like we would any other group. It's TheHighRoad instead of some other site.;)
 
Women shooters are still a bit in the minority... and when I reflect on this I say to myself, "Lord God, how much RICHER ($$$) this industry would be if we just expended a little bit of effort toward recruiting and introducing women to the fine art of the shooting sport--ANY aspect of it.

I was photoshooting a firearms class yesterday (something I'm contracted to do with some regularity) and there were two women in the class--one of which I had lunch with, and found that she was as much a 1911 nut as I was. I could barely contain my enthusiasm. It just went to prove that you never know where your next lady shooting ally will show up.

Importantly, female dollars are just as green as male dollars... and WE LADIES DO BUY GUNS. And often intelligently, too. By dismissing women shooters as lesser beings to any degree, we threaten not only the future of the shooting and firearms industry, but we degrade one another.

PS--Only one clown messed with me online. He lived to regret it--publicly. :evil:
 
I believe more women need to get into the art/sport or more plainly personal self defense.
Many of the women I know in our small town have acquired their permits and weapons to match.

Now if this thread is in response to some posts yesterday, I think some parties needed to check their attitudes at the door.
 
Heh... personally, I do my best to bring more women into the shooting world. That said...

I'm not sure WHAT to do (personally) about the folks who insist on treating women as "second class shooters", be it online or at the range.

From the numerous "What gun should I choose for my girlfriend/wife" threads, to the gunstore clerk who refuses to speak to my wife (who's the one buying today), we gunnies HAVE proven to be our own worst enemies.

I can't really tell you how to solve the problem, though.
 
I tend to agree with this. A long term pet peeve is the answer to the question of "What gun to get for my wife and/or girlfriend?" The overwhelming answer on here is a revolver because it's simple, won't jam, and you don't have to rack the slide.

The insinuation is that women (or maybe it's just their woman) are too stupid and weak to operate a semi-automatic. This may be well intentioned condescension, but I think that many women would find this insulting.

A friend of mine bought his wife her first gun following this advice. I now own that gun because his wife hated it, and wanted to sell it so she could buy a semi-automatic.

Women are every bit as capable of shooting guns and should have the same options we reserve for ourselves. Let them shoot several models and they can choose the gun they're comfortable with.
 
I made the mistake of buying for my wife before. 4 revolvers, and three autos later, she is happy as all get out with her CZ-2075 RAMI.
Women are getting more into the sport and defense sides of shooting. When I worked at an indoor range, we had several women shooters, both recreational and competitive, and there was very little to no negitive reaction. Of course, the fact that this indoor range/gunshop was RUN by a woman might have had somethingto do with it!:)
 
My mother always outshot me with a pistol and I am a decent shot. My sister in-law shoots a airweight like nobody's business. They are out there. They just don't sound off.
 
A revolver is a decent choice for any new shooter regardless of sex or ability.

With that said, I have the same pet peeve as many of you. "What gun should I get for my wife?" My answer is usually something along the lines of, "Bring her in and we'll find out." Or some such.

My wife vacillates between a .357 and a .45., usually of the Colt persuasion.
 
I think it is unfortunate that almost all gun dealers don't have a way to try before you buy.
It would help people find the "gun that fits" so much easier.

It certainly wouldn't bother me to buy a gun at a shop that has been fired but not removed from the property.
 
Folks, its that we get sexists sounding off, not that we have female shooters that aren't speaking up.

And if they're not speaking up is it because they're sick of the idgets?
 
Actually for every person (of whom I see few) here who "disparages" women, there are twenty anti-gunners publicly saying that women shouldn't be allowed to have or carry guns because:

They'll shoot the first man who asks them for directions.

They'll have their guns "taken away".

They'll murder someone and use self-defense against rape as an alibi.

It's better for a woman to be brutalized and raped than for a rapist to be killed or seriously injured by his intended victim.

Trust me, there are more knuckles dragging in the anti-gun movement than in a Geico commercial. Don't think that others don't see it either.
 
I frequent this board daily but post only rarely. My take is that many on this board aren't "anti-female" per se, but they really aren't very interested in reading the female shooter's perspective.

Why not a “sticky” instead of the multiple “what-should-I-buy-for-my-wife/gf” threads that are always bait for a few thinly disguised putdowns of female intelligence or strength? (If THR had to be paid a dollar for every “she’s too weak to rack a slide” (or the like) post, the site would be rolling in bucks.) The good answers to the what-should-I-buy-her questions are always consistently the same anyways: let her try a bunch of different guns to see which one SHE likes best, show her a couple of methods of racking a slide on a semi, support her decision and don’t treat her like an incompetent five-year-old.

But what REALLY turns me off of this great site are the periodic “advice to the lovelorn” threads that inevitable begin with, “I’ve been dating my gf for months and months and even though I knew she really didn’t like guns when we started dating, gee she still doesn’t like my guns what should I do.” Then we have multiple pages of very low-road, “you better dump the stupid b*tch” comments.

No online chat board is immune from jerks. I think this board has fewer than most, actually, and there are MANY posters who are obviously very supportive of female shooters. The excellent advice and info on this site are worth overlooking a few questionable comments, IMO anyways . . .
 
But what REALLY turns me off of this great site are the periodic “advice to the lovelorn” threads that inevitable begin with, “I’ve been dating my gf for months and months and even though I knew she really didn’t like guns when we started dating, gee she still doesn’t like my guns what should I do.” Then we have multiple pages of very low-road, “you better dump the stupid b*tch” comments.
Click to expand...

Hehehe..you nailed that one. :)
 
MY advice to the "lovelorn"...

What I always ask the regretful lovelorn is, "Didn't you know this going INTO the relationship...? Did you discuss it (or not) EARLY ON...?? Did you make any attempt to locate ladies actually interested in shooting via your local range, your competition gatherings, even word-of-mouth among your shooting buddies??!!"

If you continue to force a relationship based on mutual revulsion, you'll end up with no relationship or a regrettable one. If your lady out-n-out hates guns and rags on you about it, I'd simply withdraw without a fuss and search further. If she out-n-out doesn't want to shoot but quietly acknowledges your hobby and is neutral about it, then that's probably OK. If, after a short passage of time, she suddenly shows an interest in shooting, well then--by all means!!!

I, myself, have to look at it in the opposite direction: Any man I date or take up with at this point simply MUST allow for my hobby of shooting. I'm not hurting anyone and I'm doing some actual good by knowing how to shoot. If he objects to my shooting, then why'n hell would I want to spend time with him in the first place...??!!

I'd say, just don't get buried in a relationship that you know GOING INTO IT that there's a terrific problem about your shooting. Simply find a better match (and don't find yourself tempted to post abusive remarks about it online).
 
Are we our own worst enemy? Well, of course. By merely existing, we provide a target to those who oppose us. As we are defined by our opposites, we create conflict in interacting with those with differing views.

But, to the matter at hand - yeah, I often feel that more gunnies ought to reach out to women and other folks who are rarely presented with positive exposure to firearms.

I'm doing my part - are you doing yours?
 
Frankly, it is sad that we feel the need to be condescending or patronizing to ANYONE who has done nothing personally to deserve it. Come on... there are more important things one can do in their live to make themselves feel better.

Even picking out firearms for others is a patronizing act. Seriously. We place ourselves as the expert on what another person SHOULD want or need?

I recently went through something similar to this with my wife but without the dose of sexism. She needs a handgun for protection. Now, she knows I am the firearms guy in our family. When we are talking about it, I say "come on, lets go shoot my Glock 19 and get an idea of what you may like." Well we did. I asked her about how much ease or difficulty she had using the slide. She didn't have any trouble-- but I HAVE seen women that COULD NOT chamber a round easily. My wife just happens not to be one.

She shot it for a while and did pretty good (Read: she shoots a handgun better than I do-- but I am not a great shot IMO with my Glock.) So, we get to the discussion of what type of handgun she may want to get and I offer that we can shoot some revolvers next. Her answer? "Screw that. I'll take this one and you get yourself another gun."

And that is the story of how I lost my Glock. :) Frankly, I think she made a decent choice, and I get to get a 1911A1.


On a devil's advocate stance, I wanted to make one point about this quote:

But what REALLY turns me off of this great site are the periodic “advice to the lovelorn” threads that inevitable begin with, “I’ve been dating my gf for months and months and even though I knew she really didn’t like guns when we started dating, gee she still doesn’t like my guns what should I do.” Then we have multiple pages of very low-road, “you better dump the stupid b*tch” comments.
Click to expand...


I dont' like the language, but the sentiment COULD go both ways. I could easily see me telling a girl whose boyfriend hates guns that she'd be better off just dumping the guy and finding someone more compatible. I'd leave the name calling out, of course. Telling someone to dump an anti with no hope of recovery could easily be a gender-neutral event. I KNOW that the advice I would give is the same regardless of the genitalia involved.

An anti is an anti is an anti. I don't know many people who want to beat their head against that wall for the next 50 years. And divorces aren't cheap.

If we are going to be intellectually honest, we need to level the field. If we'd allow something to be said to or about an anti, we should say it irrespective of gender. I have a few choice words that I'd use for both Rosie O'Donnel AND Michael Bloomberg that would sound strikingly similar. I'd hope we wouldn't see sexism when they were applied to Rosie but "Business-as-Usual" when applied to Bloomberg.


Dunno.... just something to think about.


-- John
 
I have a Glock 22 and a 27, the wife can NOT rack the slide on the 27, but can the 22. These are things that do need to be addressed. Doesn't make a person sexist.
 
seems to me this much of this opening topic and following thread is rife with over-reacting,politically correct hand wringing. the fact is that many more men than women are gun enthusiasts, whether that's cultural or genetic or some bizarre statistical anamoly, who cares, it's still a fact. so who is more likely to ask about buying a gun for their significant other? a man. and if said significant other doesn't have a gun, then it's likely they're not familiar or comfortable with them,right? so it's logical in this case to lean towards something simple,reliable,user friendly,etc. like a .38 revolver. maybe if questions were phrased without stating gender or their relationship to you,just something like "i have an friend that has no experience with firearms,what guns should they consider?" , then maybe folks wouldn't get all concerned with sexism or gender bias. but then,that would be going out of your way to color the reality just please certain people, which gets back to.......yep, you guessed it, political correctness.
 
Politically correctness is relative. It's rather un-pc here to say that a lot of men are boneheads when it comes to women shooters, or heck, even to acknowledge that sexism exists. :neener:
 
Ok, I have to admit: I've been guilty of telling guys in the 'lovelorn" threads to eject. Of course, that's EXACTLY how I phrase it: reach over your head, grasp the yellow and black striped handles, pull firmly forward and down, and enjoy the ride...

I don't see that as necessarily BAD advice in many of these situations. It's usually people who have entered into a relationship with the false belief that they can change the other person. This NEVER works. If the behavior that you want changed is a deal-breaker, follow the above advice...

Don't see how that makes me a "woman hater", or anything like that...
 
I frequent this board daily but post only rarely. My take is that many on this board aren't "anti-female" per se, but they really aren't very interested in reading the female shooter's perspective.
Click to expand...
There are those who aren't, but a lot of us are indeed interested in all perspectives. Add the sexist clowns to your twit filter (Ignore List, under your User CP) and post away. THR would be the richer as a result, IMHO.
 
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