Yea.
My 1st session with a dot and I thought about sending it back, but decided to keep it for novelty.
It took a few follow up sessions and about 800 rounds for me to be on par (or close to it) with the dot versus fixed sights.
Are you "Gun Amish?" Or do you have a Red Dot on your pistol?
- Thread starter drobs
- Start date
Yea.
My 1st session with a dot and I thought about sending it back, but decided to keep it for novelty.
It took a few follow up sessions and about 800 rounds for me to be on par (or close to it) with the dot versus fixed sights.
Buzznrose
Member
like I said before, I don’t know much about bullseye competitions.
You have a link? I’d love to check out what you are referring to.
Once you reach a certain level in bullseye competition, at or just below the Master classification, the type of sights don't matter.
Run and gun games are a different story.
For anyone who can still shoot iron sights as well or better than a red dot, well, your eyes are still good.
For those of us who have to use readers to clear up the sights, which blurs the target some, red dots allow us to shoot much better.
Many years ago I thought a red dot on a pistol/revolver was a pox.........but then one day I couldn't see the sights anymore, and that
was very frustrating not to be able to shoot to my old potential (Not Bullseye good by any means, but pretty good). The red dot
got me back in the game. I still shoot irons,, and have learned to shoot fuzzy sights pretty well, but a red dot is a game changer.
For those of us who have to use readers to clear up the sights, which blurs the target some, red dots allow us to shoot much better.
Many years ago I thought a red dot on a pistol/revolver was a pox.........but then one day I couldn't see the sights anymore, and that
was very frustrating not to be able to shoot to my old potential (Not Bullseye good by any means, but pretty good). The red dot
got me back in the game. I still shoot irons,, and have learned to shoot fuzzy sights pretty well, but a red dot is a game changer.
Bill_in_TR
Member
I have red dots on my target 22's and for me they definitely help with accuracy. But for a self defense weapon I struggle with speed of acquisition. I can use them but I am definitely slower in acquiring a sight picture.
I suggest practicing more with an empty pistol at home. Keep practicing on your draw and sight presentation. The more you practice the easier it will be to find the dot and be on target.
One of the problems shooting Bullseye, now formally known as Precision Pistol, with iron sights is the use of a black target. It makes for a difficult sighting equation and a ton of literature has been written on how to overcome this problem. One advantage of the action sports is the white and buff color targets which makes it so much easier to see and center up an iron. Red dots just don't have this problem in either sport, nor in real life. The red-dot problems are astigmatism, finding the dot (lots of practice) and what to do if it isn't there.
Agreed, and a dot is faster when you get the hang of it.
Bill_in_TR
Member
I have tried working on it a good bit. I am definitely improved but as I said still slower. And for defensive use I tend to practice 7-15 yards and iron sight acquisition is much quicker and I am closer to point and shoot at those ranges anyway. Front sight acquisition is quick and I have no trouble staying center mass. I know that many like and use an RDS well for SD. But for me I am more comfortable using one for methodical target shooting.
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.38 Special
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The current record - 2680 out of a possible 2700 - was set in 1974. Here is a basic intro to the sport. https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/bullseye-shooting/
I'm not, by the way, arguing that dots are inferior, or should not be used, or any such thing. I'm just pointing out that they are not automatically more accurate than irons.
.38 Special
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That is essentially my point. Perhaps I did not make it very well.
Bill_in_TR
Member
Actually, assuming decent eyesight, a bullseye/precision pistol sight picture isn't difficult to acquire at all with iron sights and a black bull. With flat Partridge sights and a six o'clock hold on the bull you have a pretty distinct picture. You don't hold center of bull with iron sights. But my eyesight ain't wonderful anymore so I use a red dot there. But there is no need for quick acquisition.
Somthing that isn't always obvious or never spoklen of because folks discover it without realizing what they've "discovered" is that the natural tendency is to center the screen/lense of the RD on the target and expect the dot to be centered there...it isn't. That is why, for most people the dot will be above the target.
The presentation of the gun whether you are using iron sights or a red dot is exactly the same. If you can present your iron sights consistently centered on the target each time...not adjusting on the way out; when you see them...and you use the same presentation with a red dot, the dot will be on target.
Another common error is to find the dot on the guns way toward the target and "putting it" on the target. You should be looking at the target and the dot should appear...cuing your pressing the trigger
Bill_in_TR
Member
My problem is that the dot doesn't always appear immediately once I am viewing the target through the lens. It often takes a fraction of a second to show up. That isn't a problem with iron sights. The front sight just naturally comes into view. Perhaps it is my method of presentation. But it has always worked with iron sights and my speed has always been representative of my age and skill level. I will continue to work on it but for now I am comfortable using iron sights for SD.
Using Walkalongs Colt pictured above - the entire pistol needs to be presented about an inch lower to effectively use the Ultra Dot. I use the phrase 'index off your nose instead of your eyes when presenting the pistol'. The difference between the tip of your nose and the center of your eyes is similar to the difference in height between the iron sights and the red dot.
Why is the dot above the target so often? Your brain is looking for the front sight. Its ingrained in your experience to look for and focus on the front sight. Slow and repetitious practice of your presentation generally fixes this. If you are looking for or chasing the dot your presentation needs to be worked on.
An example of teaching yourself a bad habit is looking for or chasing the dot and then actually taking the shot. If the dot isn't on target you need to start over.
Why is the dot above the target so often? Your brain is looking for the front sight. Its ingrained in your experience to look for and focus on the front sight. Slow and repetitious practice of your presentation generally fixes this. If you are looking for or chasing the dot your presentation needs to be worked on.
An example of teaching yourself a bad habit is looking for or chasing the dot and then actually taking the shot. If the dot isn't on target you need to start over.
Bill_in_TR
Member
When it does appear the dot is not necessarily above the target. It may be slightly in almost any direction. It is usually not far off. I have no trouble getting the dot on target once it appears. I don't really "chase" it. Maybe it has something to do with my eyes/vision. But it slows me down just enough that it makes me more comfortable with iron sights for relatively short range work. And although I have practiced presentation with an RDS perhaps not enough.
JR24
Member
Got a couple with optics on them, I generally like them but do have some issues with washout in sunlight with my colorblind eyes
But of late I’ve mostly gone back to 1911s and those don’t have optics.
But of late I’ve mostly gone back to 1911s and those don’t have optics.
Rittmeister
Member
No dots here except on my Ruger MkIV - but that one I got in trade (the MRD, that is), and the pistol was easily adaptable with an inexpensive mount. None of my centerfire pistols have a dot and for me it's mostly from a financial standpoint; to outfit my collection would be a considerable expense however much I might save and/or spread out the purchases. I enjoy shooting the Ruger very much and I'm not against trying dots on at least some of my other pistols but for the moment my eyes are still ok and I'd prefer to spend the money on ammo...
FWIW, I have only two centerfire rifles. One is iron sights for teaching others and my own fundamentals practice, and the other has a red-dot on it, so clearly I'm down with the concept.
FWIW, I have only two centerfire rifles. One is iron sights for teaching others and my own fundamentals practice, and the other has a red-dot on it, so clearly I'm down with the concept.
P5 Guy
Member
I prefer open fixed sights on handguns and peep or irons on rifles.
Correct, takes practice, but correct.
With those old mounts it was a little different, no doubt. That's where all the slide mounting mini dots are so great. That said, it just took practice
with the older mounts/red dots. Remember the huge red dots early on in competition? I still have one, just hasn't been on a gun in years.
Anchorite
Member
This. And I think most folks - thanks to history, the NRA, folklore, whatever - mistakenly start using a RDS/O and still try to focus on the front sight. That’s not what you’re supposed to do. Using a RDS/O is a new way of shooting in that you look at the target, not the sight. Does take getting used to.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I've used red dots and lasers on handguns for many years due to my middle aged eyes.
I sorely regret that my last pistol purchase was made without consideration of it coming from the factory as red dot ready. I really can't make that mistake again.
Looks and tradition be damned, I want to be able to shoot the things like I could with 30-something year old eyes.
I sorely regret that my last pistol purchase was made without consideration of it coming from the factory as red dot ready. I really can't make that mistake again.
Looks and tradition be damned, I want to be able to shoot the things like I could with 30-something year old eyes.
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