Arrested: Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
TRGRHPY, I've rescheduled court dates over the phone myself.

The difference is, I called in advance. Showing up after the fact and saying "uh, I overslept" and telling sob stories--no matter how true they may be--isn't going to impress a prosecutor who has heard them all before. Throw in the fact that prosecutors run their campaigns on their conviction rates, and you can see where they have an interest in making things difficult for you. It's particularly easy for them to make your life hard when you actually did something wrong in the eyes of the law.

I'd be interested to know what you think I'm "making up" or "twisting around," though. I don't generally get accused of that, and I take affront to it: I try very hard to base my positions on fact and logic, and if I am trying to argue an inaccurate position, it bothers me. Would you care to point out the inaccuracy?
 
Tamlin:
I'm currently working as a City Prosecutor and warrants are issued all the time for people who don't show up to court - BUT - here, no police officer has the time to go manhunting.

And if I understood her, that is a main point of the investigation by the news. The sheriffs dept had to lay-off quite a few people, several of them deputies and even a detective or two IIRC. The story that they ran a couple of weeks ago had to do with the sheriffs office stating that they didn't have the manpower and budget that they needed. So my point to her, which she agreed, was why they were wasting resources to chase down bench warrants for traffic offenses, especially for people without priors. Yes, traffic related warrants are crimes too, but when you have issues of your office being spread thin does it justify sending out two deputies for hours at a time and leaving the rest of the spread-out county unprotected? These don't seem to be money-generating offenses, at least not enough to justify the warrants being chased down.

The way it was explained to me, with regard to the issuance of the warrants, is that when the persons name is calle, if they don't respond they turn to the clerk and tell them to issue the warrant right then and there. Since my appointment was for 8am, it would have been in the system by the time I went to the gun shop later that afternoon when I felt well enough to leave the house. There was a couple hour wait time from CBI for the background checks that day. What we were not able to determine is if the CBI called the sheriffs office or if there was some sort of automatic notification system. Either way, even though it wasn't to my advantage, I'm glad to know that they have a working system.
 
thats stupid that they would arrest you after 12hours god i dont even know if they are smart enough to put out a warrent in 12 hours more less serve it

ive only heard of one person being arrested for not going to traffic court here and it was after 6wks of no contact with the court
 
...some sort of grace period (like 48-72 hours) should exist to rectify the situation (like calling or going in to the court) before revoking a permit...yes?

Yes. Your "crime" was about as serious as a late payment on a utility bill.

Collecting auto registration fees and certifying insurance compliance does not require arrest and seizure of firearms.


Think what lessons your children learned from this episode.


Oh buhh-ruuther! You're kiddin, right?
 
My uncle recieved a speeding ticket earlier this year. He had talked to and paid a lawyer to handle it. He did not get a follow up call after his court date so he called the lawyers office the day after to see how it went. He didnt get an answer and left a message. That evening he had a visit from the deputies informing him of his warrant for not showing up. His son who lives with him followed them to jail with bond money but he still ended up spending the night. The next morning he went to the lawyers office, who apologized and said he would take care of it but refused to refund the money and only agreed to handle the next court date! Not taking any chances my uncle who is in his 40's and has never been arrested before hired another lawyer who did his job. I too think that most counties take not showing up for a traffic ticket way to far. I can understand a warrant being issued after a second date missed or after a few days of not hearing from the tickted person, but to send deputies to thier home the same or next day is extreme.
 
Really things went the way they were supposed to go....can you blame the LE's for being a little nervous about arresting someone they probably in fact knew was armed? honestly they were probably just told what to do. The court system and the judge are the ones who need to be held acountable...even if they were not the ones who decided Not to go to court without at least a call.
 
flyboy: I will spend one post trying to explain to you what you want explained. After that if you want to continue on the way you have so far, you will be doing it without response from myself.

First, if you have read the posts, I have taken responsibility for my actions and not once did I try to say otherwise. In fact, several times, I went out of my way to clarify that it was my own fault.

Showing up after the fact and saying "uh, I overslept" and telling sob stories--no matter how true they may be--isn't going to impress a prosecutor who has heard them all before.

About 2-3 years ago the court here allowed a person to reschedule even when they had already missed their court date. Nobody speaks to the prosecuter, they speak to a low-level clerk who would retract the warrant and reschedule for another date, no questions asked, no reason necessary. And, unless you want to make a deal with one of the ADAs or make a request for a jury trial, you don't even speak to a prosecutor, you speak directly to the judge.
You're making statements based upon what you think you know, or how you think things should be.
This statement by you is a gross exaggeration to the point of being a lie.

particularly easy for them to make your life hard when you actually did something wrong in the eyes of the law.

I never said that I didn't do anything wrong or that Ididn't break the law. In fact, I stated otherwise.

If by "policy" you actually mean "the law," then yes, you are correct.

I've already addressed this one, but the decision to not reschedule court appointments is policy. The issuance of a warrant is law, whether they allow the person to reschedule and retract the warrant is policy.

Or you could be aware that A) you violated the law, and B) an outstanding warrant renders your permit invalid. You know, being responsible for yourself, and all that.

A) I was aware that I violated the law.
B) This also is known.

However, other people may not. And if myself/they uknowingly missed their court date, then they wouldn't know that I/they were carrying illegally. And is it worth it to the CJ system to make a mountain out of a molehill? Essentially escelating a traffic offender into a possible felon for a mistake that the one cop I spoke to states happens all the time? Once again, we'respeaking about traffic violators here.


You go on to make assertions that I'm somehow whining, when in fact nothing like that occurred. I mentioned multiple times that I was at fault for my actions. All I did was try to show the mitigating circumstances surrounding the situation. Nowhere was I saying that I was falsely picked on or that they deputies were at fault or anything else. What I did say was that one deputy wanted to go beyond, what I felt, was the scope of his duty and possibly violating the rights of myself and the other person who was there. This is confirmed by the fact that the other deputy declined to take action with regard to confiscating weapons and the other persons cc permit.

You also go on about something from another thread that has absolutely nothing to do with this one, other than the made-up whining that you claim I'm doing.

And, after all of that, you expect sympathy.

Never in any of these, did I state by implication or otherwise, that I was expecting sympathy. Once again, I stated several times that I was wrong. I was asking, and did ask, about whether anyone thought that it was out of line for a deputy to want to confiscate an innocent bystanders permit and his, and my, guns just because they were in the same building as my arrest.

I had issues with policy, specifically related to my arrest, because of the statements made through the local media, that the sheriffs department was complaining that they had to let staff go and were undermanned because of budget cut-backs. I was questioning a policy change of wasting resources chasing down traffic warrants for individuals with no priors when they are complaining of a lack of resources. My arguement was to the wisdom, or lack of, in the decision to vigorously enforce this policy change. I did this by mentioning other people who had similar circumstances as well, and by showing that it wasn't a money-making decision, which would normally be an argument for such a thing. But you don't, and didn't, stick to the facts of what was said, you take bits and pieces and exaggerate them to make rude comments that really are out of context and add nothing to the argument since they're innaccurate statements to begin with. I don't have issue with someone disagreeing with me, it's when someone takes comments out of context and is rude about it.


Try making your point without intentionally being rude about it. Someone might actually care to see your point. You seem to be so closed minded to other people that you carry on from one discussion to another with the exaggerations. I can completely disagree with you in one conversation and then completely agree with you the next without applying some made-up opinion.
 
Judges do not like it when people are late/ don't show up.

You could have called the night before.
 
Yeah, I think it's a bit ridiculous that they are arresting people, but at the same time, it's very disrespectful to miss a court date. I suppose it could be argued that not showing up essentially constitutes a general contempt of court, since judges are usually angry whenever someone doesn't properly respect them.

Things like this are why I have a BlackBerry that's practically surgically grafted to my hip, and enter all my obligations/contacts into it - if I something happens and I see an event coming up, I always contact the opposite party and inform them that I probably will not make it.

After I bought that phone, I've never accidentally missed anything.

At any rate, I'd definitely say to learn from the consequences of this situation with attention to the future, regardless of whatever the outcome of the media involvement may be. I suppose that's life - live and learn, it just sucks when you have to learn from your own mistakes as opposed to the mistakes of others.
 
Rockwell1: There is an ffl out on falcon highway out towards dragonmans. It's called Wildfire Mercantile...a mom-and-pop store with a building on his property. They do all the gun shows and are a distibutor for Davidson's and a couple of others. They are really nice and fair people.


Really things went the way they were supposed to go....can you blame the LE's for being a little nervous about arresting someone they probably in fact knew was armed?

I agree that they went the way they're supposed to, but should they for something that trivial a matter in the CJ system? Do you think that the policy for this needs to be changed to reflect current budget and manpower issues?

If they were nervous I would completely understand their point. However this wasn't the case at all. The nice deputy (20 year deputy with this SO) was very relaxed. I showed him that there was a sidearm. He just told me to turn sideways and he took the holster/gun and set them on the table next to us without removing the gun from the holster and clearing it. He allowed me to dig into my front and back pockets to remove cash, change, keys, wallet, etc. I missed most of what happened between the other deputy and the other person who was there, but I can't repeat what he had to say about the other deputy and still stay high road. He just stated how eager the deputy was to take everything, like he stumbled across a career-high illegal gun bust or something. Both myself and the other person were very polite and accomodating and really tried to go out of our way to not give them (mainly the one) a reason to escalate things beyond my arrest. I mean, really, all they were doing was their job with regard to my arrest. I was a little bit irritated at the time, but mostly shocked that they would actually come all the way out to my house for that. and I wasn't irritated at them, but at myself. I knew I had screwed up and that it was my fault, but at the same time I didn't think then and I don't think now that missing traffic court is worthy of all that resource expenditure.
 
I'm a cop (so bash away!) and I don't believe your story. I'll explain:

1. The NICS denial - The FBI runs NICS. A misdemeanor bench warrant does not get entered into NCIC, which is the national criminal information system. The FBI would have no knowledge of your bench warrant, nor would they care.

2. Deps calling your dealer - In addition to the point about the FBI not knowing or caring about your warrant, they don't have the time to call every local office every time a guy that has some obscure warrant tries to buy a gun.

3. The warrant itself - Misdemeanor warrants are entered into a local system by the local court. If a bench warrant was issued by a judge, I find it unlikely (but not impossible) that the warrant would be entered by the court that day, and in fact within a few hours of you missing court. More likely it would get written up by the court officer, signed by the judge in the afternoon or next day, then sit in the court's file while it waited behind all the other ones to be entered.

4. The pick-up - A bench warrant is not something that will spur a police manhunt and result in you being visited at home within hours of missing traffic court.
 
as a European, I think it is completely absurd to issue a warrant and then arrest somebody over a traffic offense. It doesn't happen here even if you miss court dates.

to lighten your mind I'll tell you a little story TRGRHPY about a friend of my wife who is also a lawyer here.

He went out partying and parked his car where he shouldn't have parked it. Evidently when he came out of the club his car was nowhere to be found as it had been towed away.

The next morning he went down to the police car compound and diligently waited in line for 45 minutes - they opened up shop 45 minutes late so while waiting he was spouting out how unacceptable it was to be opening late/his time was precious and he really got the crowd going who also had had their cars towed the night before.

When they opened he demanded to speak to the officer in charge and in no uncertain terms told him his time was being wasted by their inefficiency. He was then escorted into a room with three other officers and feeling threatened mentioned he was a lawyer and knew the system inside out. They told him to take a seat.

Four hours later they came back with over 3k worth of fines, speeding/parking etc. that he had accumulated over years of living here, on top of the 600 he owed to reacquire his car. He had to pay up or stay put until all was settled. His bank account didn't have enough funds to cover it so he had to call the bank.

'No sir, we can't give you an overdraft as you never requested it when you opened your account but if you'd like to come down to the bank it can be arranged'

'I'm being detained so how can I come down to the bank?'

So he demanded to speak to the bank manager who was considerate enough to allow him go over to settle all his fines without having the paperwork in order.

The officer in charge told him they would be keeping an extra special eye on him for the future.

If he had kept to himself he would only have had to pay EUR600 but having put up such a fuss they threw everything they had at him.

at times you can be your own worst enemy.

it's completely unrelated to your story and I'm not drawing any parallels between the two whatsoever.

As I said at the beginning I think it's absurd to be arrested over traffic offenses and if the police started arresting people at home here for speeding/parking or missing traffic court dates there would be blood in the streets from protests.

I'd also say the police follow orders and your issue isn't at all with them - it's just the system in your state.

Regards,
Paul
 
Last edited:
Hey man, I took some heat for not posting everything in an attempt to keep that from happening, so I'm not about to start now....hahaha.

1. In CO, the FBI doesn't run the background, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation does.

2. You may have missed this earlier, but I stated that I didn't know how they were notified. My guess is that either the CBI called the SO, or there is some kind of instant notification through the computer system....I don't know. It was the SO that called the dealer wanting to know if I was still there. This is one reason why I brought this whole thing up, to get opinions on whether a traffic warrant is worth the time of sending out deputies.

3. After speaking with oneof the clerks on the day they my court was rescheduled for, she stated that as soon as a person doesn't answer the Judge, the Judge hands the file off to the clerk in the courtroom, who is sitting in front of a computer, and the clerk enters the warrant right then and there. Colorado Springs is somewhere in the neighborhood of 400,000 people or so IIRC, so El Paso county is going to be a bit larger than that...not exactly a small community. so for them to have a working system of instant notification doesn't surprise me at all.

4. That is what I thought as well, which is why I elected to stay home that evening instead of going out to go to school. That obviously isn't the case.

If you want clarification on something, please ask, I'll tell you the info you want to know. I'm not hiding anything. don't say that I'm lying. I still have the paperwork from the original ticket to the paperwork that lists the reason for the warrant and the court document that shows the case being dismissed. If anyone wants to meet me in person to view these documents themself, pm me and I'll meet you.

First of all, I'm not new here trying to make a name for myself. Second, if things were that out of whack, they wouldn't have called me up to reinstate my cc permit a week after the arrest. Third, they wouldn't have dismissed the charges/tickets.



Look, I know how outrageous this seems. I hardly believe it at times and I lived it. People and friends that I have spoken to in person had a difficult time believing the story, and had they not known me and seen the papers, they probably wouldn't have believed it. Heck, the other THR member and I sat in Denny's afterwards in a state of awe and could hardly believe what had just happened. What can I say? It's the truth, it happened exactly as I said it did. The reason the original post, and some of the others, was so long was to try to explain what happened as best I can.
 
Thank you for the clarification. Some of this sounds a lot more plausible.

1. In CO, the FBI doesn't run the background, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation does.

I didn't know that. That makes more sense now.

2. You may have missed this earlier, but I stated that I didn't know how they were notified. My guess is that either the CBI called the SO, or there is some kind of instant notification through the computer system....I don't know. It was the SO that called the dealer wanting to know if I was still there. This is one reason why I brought this whole thing up, to get opinions on whether a traffic warrant is worth the time of sending out deputies.

This still seems odd. I still can't imagine that a state-wide agency that does background checks would take the time to notify the Sheriff's Office every time somebody with a piddly bench warrant shows up.

3. After speaking with oneof the clerks on the day they my court was rescheduled for, she stated that as soon as a person doesn't answer the Judge, the Judge hands the file off to the clerk in the courtroom, who is sitting in front of a computer, and the clerk enters the warrant right then and there. Colorado Springs is somewhere in the neighborhood of 400,000 people or so IIRC, so El Paso county is going to be a bit larger than that...not exactly a small community. so for them to have a working system of instant notification doesn't surprise me at all.

Well, that sounds plausible.

4. That is what I thought as well, which is why I elected to stay home that evening instead of going out to go to school. That obviously isn't the case.

A county that contains a city of 400,000 is going to have a very busy Sheriff's Office. I can't imagine that they would send people out to look for a guy with a brand-new bench warrant. Now there have been times, in my experience, when a judge really wants somebody picked up. Often the judge will notify the Sheriff's Office, who will try to track the person down. You really have to get under a judge's skin to get this kind of attention, though.
 
This still seems odd. I still can't imagine that a state-wide agency that does background checks would take the time to notify the Sheriff's Office every time somebody with a piddly bench warrant shows up.


actually under felderal law you would be prohibited if you have a bench warrent for you. You are a fugative from justice.

Working in a FFL, It was by far the most common kick back, from the CA DOJ... It was almost always a ticket from long ago that had not been taken care of.
 
TRGRHPY,

Let me be clear.

I am new here but in no way am I trying to 'make a name for myself'.

I'm just trying to illustrate to you that in the end all seemed to work itself out for the best and it could have been a lot worse - an awful lot worse.

that's all I'm trying to say.




as for the media coverage, it's purely the system and 'policy' as you have said that needs to be addressed.

Our system is passive in that the police allow fines to accumulate over years/high interest tagged onto it until it breeches a threshold level of I believe 7.5k...in which case they simply revoke your drivers license until you pay up. i.e. you have to come to them all the time as they won't waste time on traffic offenses such as speeding/parking and sure as hell won't turn up at your home to arrest you.

The system you have is the complete opposite and extremely proactive to chase down every last nickel and dime - I agree it's a completely inefficient use of police resources.

Regards,
Paul
 
A county that contains a city of 400,000 is going to have a very busy Sheriff's Office. I can't imagine that they would send people out to look for a guy with a brand-new bench warrant.

Exactly. Which is why it was a complete surprise to see two deputies standing there when I answered the door. Also why the media is interested in the story.



You know, with CO being the scene of a couple of mass shootings, I wonder if it was just a combination of having a warrant, the attempt to purchase two guns that set off alarm bells or something. The deputy just stated that if they have a warrant and they're not on a call, that they'll pursue it. It's obviously plausible since they did show up at my door, but now I;m curious if that may have had something to do with it. Maybe they're hyper-aware of certain combinations of things, I dunno...


Lykoris: No,no,no,,,My bad, I wasn't trying to imply that to you at all....sorry if it was interpreted that way. I was just trying to make a point to the other person that I'm not making up some grandiose scenario to get attention. I appreciate the story...what a load of bunk to have to deal with. Thats a lot of money to fork over for a parking ticket. Interesting to know that there would be protests if something similar happened there. Hopefully if the news decides to air the report, the citizens here will be outraged as well.
 
You know, with CO being the scene of a couple of mass shootings, I wonder if it was just a combination of having a warrant, the attempt to purchase two guns that set off alarm bells or something.

Sorry bud, but that's just ridiculous...

This thread is going to go on much longer than you want it to. I understand defending your actions, but you have nothing to prove to a bunch of anonymous people on the internet. Don't worry about it.

In other words, as a fellow Coloradan, it's about bed-time. :)
 
The bench warrant would be SOP around here, but for a traffic ticket they generally don't go looking. If the run into you thats a different matter. Sounds like the ADA is the issue not the officers.
 
What kills me is that when people who had missed a court date showed up to make it right, they were arrested right there in the courthouse. How is that a good use of taxpayer funds? Isn't there a way to do this that is more cost effective?
 
In my town, if you get a traffic citation you have three options:
one is to pay the fine and forget about it. there is the option to show up to court to contest the citation in front of a judge with the Officer present. The last option is to forget about the whole issue and not pay or go to court. If you choose the last option, The great state of TN will suspend your drivers license, but they wont send the local PD after you with an arrest warrant.

Your situation sounds bad and I hate that you had to go through that over a registration violation, but different jurisdictions have different laws and regulations.

As stated before, the deputies were following the orders of the warrant.
 
"And if myself/they uknowingly missed their court date, then they wouldn't know that I/they were carrying illegally."

Sorry, you didn't unknowingly miss your court date. You KNEW you had a court date. Unknowing is when you don't know about something.

Unknown = not known

You knew.

John
 
The Fox News thing is interesting and you mean well, but remember- there is a certain degree of politics and bias involved in law enforcement, from the DA on down to the beat cop. Imagine your name and face are used in a news story which isn't flattering to the local PD, Sheriff, or judge. * You could end up putting a bulls-eye on yourself.

Think of the attitude and the malice of that ADA you ran into (the contempt, sarcasm, and self-righteousness), then imagine their reaction if you make them look bad. Just consider what they could do to get payback on you: you are suddenly stopped and frisked at the local mall (in a humiliating fashion), you are pulled over for no reason and kept waiting for an hour, etc. I know you are going to gasp- “they can’t do that”, however you would be surprised the amount of discretionary powers LEOs have- especially if they want to put you back in your place. Just a heads up. :scrutiny:
 
I think the one thing I noticed is this...

You were the only one apparently where someone was actually sent out to arrest you. It looks like other people were arrested as they came in to the ADA office.

You were probably the only one trying to buy a gun on your actual court date. The Sheriff actually called the dealer looking for you.

So, let's see.... you missed your court date and tried to buy a gun on the same day. I am guessing that is what precipitated the deputies to show up on your door. It does not look like others were treated the same way. They were arrested when they showed up.

It sure looks like that is the case here.
 
Wow. They only do warrant sweeps once a year here, and the only way you'd get arrested for showing up to take care of your tickets is if you were wanted in a different jurisdiction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top