Arrested: Part 1

[ezenbrowntown]

While I understand the mitigating circumstances, know up front that everyone has "mitigating" circumstances. If this were allowed by law, then no one would show up to court because they would use it as a cop out. I work in the public where people come in to make payments, and despite an extra couple of weeks to pay after their payment date, they always have some "mitigating" circumstances they think should qualify them as a reason for continued postponement. No offense meant, but forgetfullness doesn't count as a mitigating circumstance (although I wish it did, it would be sure keep me out of trouble with the Mrs. !!)

I'm not sure if it works like that in CO, but here you can pay the ticket at the courthouse or even mail it. While inconvienent and financially costly, at least a valuable lesson has been learned.

Someone commented earlier about the felony warrants. They big difference between those and this case is the that they either don't answer the door, don't have a valid address or they make a run for it!

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Sergeant Sabre: "Six month max for a registration violation? Wow. What's a drunk driving offense for you in Maine? Here a first offense is only a 93-day max."

364 days in jail, although there's no minimum jail time for OUI barring aggravating factors like a high (>15%) test, injuries, minor passenger, etc. Typically first offenders with no significant record and no aggravating factors get the 90 day minimum license suspension, a $500 fine and DEEP training. Second offense within 10 years means minimum 2 days in jail (alternative sentencing program available for most, at cost) and 18 month loss of license. It gets steadily more serious, eventually rising to felony level for habitual offenders.

 

[slogfilet]

I don't mean to get any further off topic, but...

When I lived in Bellingham, WA several years ago, there was an animal mutilator on the loose. It was awful; many pets had been killed in terrible ways. They had no luck finding the sicko, and eventually a reward was offered.

I was surprised to see a letter to the editor in the paper that week. "They're just animals... awful things happen to humans every day, shouldn't we be going after child abusers and murderers?"

It's all important. Justice serves everyone (yes, even cats.) Yes, there need to be checks and balances, hence why I don't want to see swarms of cops going around arresting jaywalkers. But yeah, nab a few. But if you see ME jaywalking... a) I'm late for work b)there's no traffic around here anyway c)come on, this is the first time I've ever done this and d)shouldn't you be out catching former Nazi war criminals instead of harassing me?

 

[pith43]

Most traffic violations in Colorado never even have to go to court. You just have to pay the fine or show proof of fixing the problem within 20 day's of the citation.

If you don't pay the fine and show proof, THEN you are required to show up in court.

When you signed the citation, YOU AGREED to pay the fine, show up in court or be subject to arrest.


I speak from experience....25 years ago I was the guy going to jail because of fix-it tickets. I finally grew up and decided that taking care of my responsibilities was way easier and cheaper than spending the night in the pokey. It also elimainated the embarassing conversation; "What are ya in for? Assualt on an officer.... you? Cracked windshield."

 

[ojibweindian]

ojbweinden: "Arrested, at his house, over a minor traffic violation and a subsequent failure to appear in court for the violation. What utter crap."

Again, Operating an Unregistered Motor Vehicle is neither minor nor a traffic violation. It's a misdemeanor crime, much like Operating Under the Influence.

"Aren't there bigger fish to catch like, say, serial rapists and murderers?"

In the immortal words of Jimmy Malone, "Yeah. But I'm not doing them right now."

Justify it all you want, it's still crap. A lot like the brainless "zero tolerance" laws.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

...the three cops in PA shot and killed were going to a mom n son verbal domestic about a dog peeing on a rug...
...that said, lotsa cops are understandably nervous when dealing with even seemingly mundane issues... especially when a firearm is known to be present...
...plus saw alot folks when I worked a jail not show up for court due to (fill in excuse here)... they always didn't apprciate getting remanded when they showed up at court a day or week later...

 

[rainbowbob]

If the OP was made an "example," then fair enough.

An example of what...and to who?

It's a misdemeanor crime, much like Operating Under the Influence.

Regardless of the letter of the law, missing the payment of a fee and a court date to answer for said fee are nothing whatsoever like operating under the influence.

One puts the public at risk...the other doesn't.

I believe most of us would prefer enforcement policies and priorities that best achieve the the primary function of government: public safety.

The OP might make a difference in helping to re-direct precious LE resources by creating a dilalogue in his community on the question of priorities (without shirking his "guilt" or responsibility for failing to pay a fee and appear in court).

More power to him if he's willing to take it on. That is what we as citizens SHOULD be doing...
Questioning public policy and looking for more efficient ways to allocate dwindling public resources.

Making payment of all outstanding tickets, fees, fines, and insurance a requirement of driver's license and license tab renewals is the most efficient method of ensuring payment of same.

Most of us don't want to be driving around with a bench warrant hanging over our heads, and there are plenty of opportunity to get caught if you do.

Sending police to somebody's door for enforcement of these issues is an absurd waste of precious resources. So is arresting people who show up to rectify their mistakes.

 

[fireman 9731]

So where is part 2?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

rainbowbob: "Regardless of the letter of the law, missing the payment of a fee and a court date to answer for said fee are nothing whatsoever like operating under the influence."

You missed some intervening conduct. He failed to renew, he drove on an expired sticker, he eventually was pulled over for it, he signed a summons, and he failed to appear. Again, I'm not saying this is the most serious crime in the world, and I don't support prioritizing its enforcement over other more serious matters, but it's not exactly a parking ticket.

"One puts the public at risk...the other doesn't."

Around here public safety actually is why Operating an Unregistered Motor Vehicle is taken so seriously. Renewing registration here is cheap and easy, yet often is not done. The reasons for not being able to register include no insurance, unauthorized driver, suspended license, suspended registration, habitual offender, stolen vehicle, unsafe vehicle, equipment violation, fraudulent sticker, unpaid taxes, unpaid child support, or what have you. Some of this stuff eventually implicates public safety.

 

[rainbowbob]

Around here public safety actually is why Operating an Unregistered Motor Vehicle is taken so seriously...The reasons for not being able to register include no insurance, unauthorized driver, suspended license, suspended registration, habitual offender...[etc.]...Some of this stuff eventually implicates public safety.

DoD: You make a very good point I had not really considered. But don't you mean impacts public safety?

 

[kermit315]

Around here public safety actually is why Operating an Unregistered Motor Vehicle is taken so seriously. Renewing registration here is cheap and easy, yet often is not done. The reasons for not being able to register include no insurance, unauthorized driver, suspended license, suspended registration, habitual offender, stolen vehicle, unsafe vehicle, equipment violation, fraudulent sticker, unpaid taxes, unpaid child support, or what have you. Some of this stuff eventually implicates public safety.

how is that a safety issue?

 

[TRGRHPY]

I need to remind some that I'm not contesting the legality of the arrest. I was wrong and broke the law, period. I gave the mitigating circumstances, not as excuses, but to try to clarify why things happened the way they did.What I was looking for with this were peoples reactions to what happened during the arrest....confiscating one cc permit and trying to confiscate another from a person who was a bystander....and the wanting to confiscate the weapons in the home, even those of the bystander.. They were there to serve an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. While they have the right to search the area in plain view around the person they are serving the warrant on, I'm fairly certain that they can't just walk aimlessly around the house looking for things and harrassing the other occupants. One deputy understood this, one didn't.


I appreciate everyone's comments, especially those who seem to be against me. This is the system that we have, for better or worse, and in my case the system worked. I think that the policy is what failed. (the policy of wasting resources in the largest county in CO for traffic warrants).

Duke: AFter speaking with a couple of people who have been convicted of later registration, and one officer, the fine for such is $13, unless it has very recently changed. After looking at the warrant, the issue listed on the warrant is for the insurance, not the registration. I believe the reason is because of the seriousness of not having insurance, and I agree. On the ticket there are no points awarded (love that term with regard to punishment) for the registration while the POI is worth 4 points. And to remind people, I did have the insurance with me, just couldn't find it at the time of citation. Either way, the system worked...I was ticketed, and eventually at court, proof was shown and the charges were dropped. Heck, I didn't even have to say anything to the ADA on my behalf other than "here it is", and handing him the paper.


Buck00: You make a very good point. I have been thinking about it quite a bit since I spoke with the reporter on the phone. She asked if I would be willing to go on camera with what happened and I told her yes. I have contemplated, if we get that far, asking her if I can give the statements annonymously. I will be staying in the area and applying for jobs in the CJ system, so taking this public could very well be detrimental to my cause. If we get to that point then I'll have to give my decision, until then I need to figure out what that will be. I don't think that there's any justice in arresting a woman who missed a flight due to no fault of her own. Out of all that happened to myself, I take more issue with her situation than my own. You never know, there may be someone watching who thinks that going to the press is a good way to change policy...I dunno...maybe, maybe not.

Quote:
You were the only one apparently where someone was actually sent out to arrest you. It looks like other people were arrested as they came in to the ADA office.

Actually we don't know that he was the only one, we know that some people were arrested when they came in (standard practice in El Paso County) but we don't know that everyone but him came in.

After speaking with the one police officer, she confirmed that this is the policy here, even if a person shows up at the court, they will be arrested, processed and a new court date given. When you have a specific time and day to show up and then there is no way to rectify the situation without being processed through the system, there needs to be a change...preferrably back to the way they used to do it where the person could call or go in and reschedule.

Most people have not had the opportunity to be a guest of the sytem, and before this my only involvement was taking a tour of the facility for school. Let me tell you, it is not a pleasant thing, even if it is just for 6 hours or so. It doesn't sound like that big a deal until you find yourself with your hands cuffed behind you. When you're in a cell with 5 others who have been part of the system for a large part of their life, you try to avoid telling them that you're there for forgetting to send in your registration payment. hahaha Oh, btw, I wasn't pulled over for speeding on the original traffic stop, it was solely for my tags when the officer pulled up behind me at a red light.

ojbweinden: "Arrested, at his house, over a minor traffic violation and a subsequent failure to appear in court for the violation. What utter crap."

Again, Operating an Unregistered Motor Vehicle is neither minor nor a traffic violation. It's a misdemeanor crime, much like Operating Under the Influence.

There are many traffic violations that can be misdemeanors. If this was something they considered major, it would have been listed on the warrant and there would be a stronger fine than $13.

slogfilet:

It's all important. Justice serves everyone (yes, even cats.) Yes, there need to be checks and balances, hence why I don't want to see swarms of cops going around arresting jaywalkers. But yeah, nab a few. But if you see ME jaywalking... a) I'm late for work b)there's no traffic around here anyway c)come on, this is the first time I've ever done this and d)shouldn't you be out catching former Nazi war criminals instead of harassing me?

By serving warrants they do catch people who have done things other than just the traffic violation. In no way am I trying to deflect or trying to justify my bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.


pith43:

Most traffic violations in Colorado never even have to go to court. You just have to pay the fine or show proof of fixing the problem within 20 day's of the citation.

If you need to show proof of something, such a insurance and registration, you do have to go in. It states on my ticket that I have to go in...pleading guilty and just paying the fine is not an option.



Back to the top: Do you think that confiscating firearms and permits is justified, even for a bystander?

 

[Bennyb747]

When I lived in North Carolina I was arrested for the same thing later in the evening after missing my court date, I figured it was just the normal way things are done. Don't get me wrong I was pissed but what do you expect for skipping a court date?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

they took your permit for how long? and did they actually take any guns?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

rainbowbob: "You make a very good point I had not really considered. But don't you mean impacts public safety?"

I used implicates rather than impacts because I am not so certain that some of these factors in fact do impact public safety. It might have been clearer had I said "have public safety implications" -- but today I have declared unrestricted warfare on passive voice narration, just as last year I declared unrestricted warfare on split infinitives so as more effectively to communicate.

 

[ojibweindian]

Back to the top: Do you think that confiscating firearms and permits is justified, even for a bystander?

Personally, I don't.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

TRGRHPY: "Back to the top: Do you think that confiscating firearms and permits is justified, even for a bystander?"

Not under ordinary circumstances, though I've been in a situation years ago in another state where the cops did pretty much as you describe -- wandering around my place, looking at interesting stuff, taking out and pawing over firearms, piling them up on the bed even though no crime was charged to anyone (something awful had indeed happened, and I had summoned police). Eventually things sort of developed along, an unrelated emergency erupted across town and I was able to keep them from taking away any of my firearms when they eventually all left me to clean up the mess. Whew.

But yours may not have been an ordinary circumstance. Same day court skip, and multiple declined firearms purchases? I have to assume the two are related, but it might have seemed even more suspicious to the police if they were NOT related -- such as, for example, if the denial was for other reasons or in error. The order in which the responding officers learned of the interesting events in your day may have affected their attitude and the outcome. Did they get sent out to follow up a multiple gun denial, and then discover on the way there after running your plates (let me guess -- car in the drive, nose in, right?) you had an outstanding warrant issued that same day? Notch up the alert level one or two places.

 

[TRGRHPY]

they took your permit for how long? and did they actually take any guns?

Oh, glad you asked. It turns out that the permit is void, until the warrant is rectified. So once I was missed the court appointment and the warrant was issued, my permit was void up to the point of when I was processed at the jail. Once the warrant was taken care of my permit should've been handed back to me along with my shoes and drivers license during out-processing. They didn't. So I had to open-carry for about a week. The morning following the arrest, I contacted the permit office of the SO and spoke with the woman there who told me that my permit would be sent to her where it would sit in my file until the disposition of the next court date. But she spoke with their legal advisor who stated that traffic violations do not warrant suspending a permit, and she called me up the following week and told me that she had printed a new permit and that I could come down and pick it up. Interesting that my original permit was not turned in to her like it was supposed to be.


Thankfully there was deputy there with a better understanding of the law, who disagreed with consfiscating both of our firearms and the other persons permit. Had the one deputy not been there, myself and the other person would be fighting the court system to get our firearms back. That, to me, is insane.

 

[slogfilet]

By serving warrants they do catch people who have done things other than just the traffic violation. In no way am I trying to deflect or trying to justify my bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

I totally understand, I didn't mean that you were deflecting or anything. My point was actually that while there is a wonderful "theoretical" argument for the validity of the arrest and whatnot, it still sucks, and you have every right to question the process. I know I would.

 

[rainbowbob]

I used implicates rather than impacts because I am not so certain that some of these factors in fact do impact public safety....today I have declared unrestricted warfare on passive voice narration...

DoD: Thanks for up-clearing that.

Had the one deputy not been there, myself and the other person would be fighting the court system to get our firearms back. That, to me, is insane.

Kafkaesque, even.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

so they didn't actually take any guns?but they talked about it?
and the court cancelled the permit when you failed to appear? isn't it normal to take permits when they are cancelled? seems their crime is not giving it back right away when released? they need to get their sop straightened out though i can see how that might happen.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Choosing not to go and forgetting due to mitigating circumstances are a bit different.

Not to the court- good, bad or indifferent the state does not allow us to have concerns with a higher priority than that of the state. I'm sure you have heard the old saying that 'ignorance of the law is no excuse." Forgetting would be a state of temporary ignorance of your legal obligation.

 

[JohnBT]

"Justify it all you want, it's still crap."

And your point is what? Lots of stuff is crap and will get you into more trouble than it's worth. Get a grip on reality. And "forgetting" to go to court is stupid because it puts you even deeper into the system.

Sheesh.

Going to court is NOT voluntary.

John

 

[JohnBT]

"What I was looking for with this were peoples reactions to what happened during the arrest...."

And the answer is...When you're dealing with the government, a bureaucracy or other large organization (like Verizon ) you can expect for the deal to go south frequently for any number of reasons that don't make any sense. Why ask why, they just do and do it all too often. Analyzing it is a waste of time because it isn't logical.

Minimize exposure is the rule of the day. You screwed up and and one thing led to another and whatever happened, well, it happened. Next time don't step in front of the speeding train.

John

 

[winston smith]

The judge is an idiot and your DA's office has idiots running it. You voted them in, then screwed up by committing a minor crime and failing to do your duty.

There is nothing here for anyone to be proud of.

This cycle of civilization is about to end.