so i posted "Lets See Those Assault Rifles" and some people got offended, i understand the media getting out of hand with the word but when i posted here i thought it wouldnt be that big a deal,so is an auto only cosidered an assault rifle? cause if me or my family were in danger i would still assault the enemy if i used my semi or my fully
Assault Rifle? What's the big deal
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iamkris
Member
The problem comes from letting your adversary (anti-gunners) define your language. The more you use "assault rifle" to refer to something that isn't, the more "they" win.
Michael Bane and Tom Gresham talk about this a lot. Language is important. The unwashed masses get all emotional about stuff...especially when it looks or sounds scary. You don't need to contribute to that.
Over the last 5 or so years, several pro-gunners in the media have purposely referred to us pro-gunners as "gun rights activists". You may not think that is important, but with the Heller case recently in the news, a lot of the general media used that term. To the lay person, it is harder to argue against someone concerned about a "right" and often have a soft spot for an "activist". Yes they are just words but they are persuasive...even if a little.
Others don't care much. That's their perogative.
Michael Bane and Tom Gresham talk about this a lot. Language is important. The unwashed masses get all emotional about stuff...especially when it looks or sounds scary. You don't need to contribute to that.
Over the last 5 or so years, several pro-gunners in the media have purposely referred to us pro-gunners as "gun rights activists". You may not think that is important, but with the Heller case recently in the news, a lot of the general media used that term. To the lay person, it is harder to argue against someone concerned about a "right" and often have a soft spot for an "activist". Yes they are just words but they are persuasive...even if a little.
Others don't care much. That's their perogative.
blackhawk2000
member
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Ash
Member
Well, if you say "Assault Weapon" you let them win. If you say "Assault Rifle" you technically refer to a select-fire weapon firing an intermediate round.
Ash
Ash
Flash!
Member
I like to call them "Anti Assault" rifles because, to me, their purpose
is to stop an assault against me.
is to stop an assault against me.
anthonydr2
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I can't wait to show pictures of my machine gun. What will you want me to call it when the BATFE transfer is complete?
JCMAG
Member
It is a rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle. It is a "tactical" rifle. It is a lot of things, but it is not what the media calls an "assault rifle." No more would you call a semi-automatic rifle an "assault rifle" should you call a a semi-automatic handgun a "school massacre pistol."
If you're familiar with how re-defining the language of hate affected the civil rights movement in the 20th century, then there should be no ambiguity with how we re-defining the language of fear affects the civil rights movement in the 21st century.
If you're familiar with how re-defining the language of hate affected the civil rights movement in the 20th century, then there should be no ambiguity with how we re-defining the language of fear affects the civil rights movement in the 21st century.
sarduy
Member
hey bro... i knew what you mean when you post "Lets See Those Assault Rifles"...we at THR don't really like people to missuse the term "assault rifles"...There is a difference Assault and tactical rifle... so i would recommend that you use the term "Tactical" because 99% of use own tactical and Home defense rifles like the ak that i show you in your last post. if you post ""Lets See Those Tactical/Sporting Rifles" you'll end up with a 10 pages thread full of picture from very happy people
by the way... here's an example of a Regular gun and a tactical gun
Remington 870 (Regular)
![870express[1]_sm.jpg](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.remington.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Ffirearms%2Fshotgun%2F870express%5B1%5D_sm.jpg&hash=6ace16c1c5c0a9c57382ff293db37e84)
Remington 870 "Tactical" (not assault)
in the end... you get the same shotgun (remington 870) just different look, but same action.
i hope that helps.
Sarduy.
Cave Dweller
Member
Lets coin a new, non menacing phrase.
"accessorised semi auto" perhaps?
Let's repeal the "ASA" ban
"accessorised semi auto" perhaps?
Let's repeal the "ASA" ban
Synergy
Member
Seriously, if we stray from assault rifle and start using "tactical" the anti-gunners will use that term against us. I can hear it now, tactical should be for police forces, or military. They will take any buzz word to play it off as evil to the public. Would the OP's post have been better if had asked to see "Black" Rifles since most assault and all tacticals' are black?
Stay the ground, educate as many as you can about what a "assault" rifle consists of.
I find this video quite informative for many anti-gunners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30&feature=related
Stay the ground, educate as many as you can about what a "assault" rifle consists of.
I find this video quite informative for many anti-gunners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30&feature=related
RobertFBurnett
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+1 A long long time ago one of the original Evil Anti-Gun Legislators originated the assault rifle.
"In July 1944 at a meeting of the various army heads about the Eastern Front, when Hitler asked what they needed, a general blurted out "More of these new rifles!" This caused some confusion, but once Hitler was given a chance to test fire the MP44, he was impressed and gave it the title Sturmgewehr. Seeing the possibility of a propaganda gain, the rifle was again renamed as the StG44, to highlight the new class of weapon it represented, translated "assault rifle, model 1944", thereby introducing the term."
That is an entry on wikipedia, my "military small arms of the 20th century" also links Hitler to dubbing it assault rifle.
This story had been refuted on some sites partially in that Sturmgewehr translates into Storm rifle (as to Storm a bunker.), not assault rifle, but also that it was a poor allied translation that made it assault rifle.
In either case the one true assault rifle is the StG44 Sturmgewehr, all the rest are its offspring automatic rifles in an assault role.
My Buck-0-5
RFB
half of the problem is terminology, the same way some people when someone says "I loaded the bullets and then..." when really you are loading cartridges.
Same goes for assault rifle and sporting rifle.
the other half of the problem with word usage is exactly what IAMKRISS explained.
Same goes for assault rifle and sporting rifle.
the other half of the problem with word usage is exactly what IAMKRISS explained.
Waywatcher
Member
Its the words. Assault rifles are really expensive (5 digits) and hard to get.
semi-auto rifles are much, much easier to get but are not assault rifles,
semi-auto rifles are much, much easier to get but are not assault rifles,
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
By definition, an assault rifle is a selective-fire carbine chambered for an intermediate round.
The gun-control lobby has spent an immense amount of time and money to try to get the public (and even some gun owners) to confuse NFA Title 1 non-automatic carbines like civilian AR-15's and WASR's with NFA Title 2/Class III restricted assault rifles like M16's and actual AK-47's. We don't need to help them confuse people, IMO.
The gun-control lobby has spent an immense amount of time and money to try to get the public (and even some gun owners) to confuse NFA Title 1 non-automatic carbines like civilian AR-15's and WASR's with NFA Title 2/Class III restricted assault rifles like M16's and actual AK-47's. We don't need to help them confuse people, IMO.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Looking back at the opening post: We're really NOT talking about guns as guns. We're talking about guns as politics. Freedom to say what one thinks is not the issue: It's the use of words as OTHER PEOPLE think they mean. IOW, perceptions.
In political arguments or discussions, perceptions outweigh facts.
We here have a pretty good understanding of assault rifles vs. battle rifles. The antis lump all of them together as "assault weapons", which by THEIR definition are evil and badnasty. Again, facts don't matter to them. It doesn't matter to them that "assault weapon" is a made-up media word; it's no different than the mythical cop-killer bullet.
So, as we talk about the various types of go-bangs, it is important that we try to be accurate and specific--but always remember that larger audience which lacks knowledge.
Perception, in the media: The Beltway sniper used a deadly high-power rifle. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are equipped with inadequate rifles. The fact that the 5.56 cartridge is common to both seems to escape the writers...
Art
In political arguments or discussions, perceptions outweigh facts.
We here have a pretty good understanding of assault rifles vs. battle rifles. The antis lump all of them together as "assault weapons", which by THEIR definition are evil and badnasty. Again, facts don't matter to them. It doesn't matter to them that "assault weapon" is a made-up media word; it's no different than the mythical cop-killer bullet.
So, as we talk about the various types of go-bangs, it is important that we try to be accurate and specific--but always remember that larger audience which lacks knowledge.
Perception, in the media: The Beltway sniper used a deadly high-power rifle. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are equipped with inadequate rifles. The fact that the 5.56 cartridge is common to both seems to escape the writers...
Art
K3
Member
I've seen the phrase 'homeland defense rifle' used here and there. Kind of hokey, but it's also hard for the antis to use it against us.
Your rights end where mine begin, and vice versa.
You wouldn't go to a NAACP chat site and expect no one to complain if you used racial epithets, right?
That's roughly the analogy to what you were doing, with the exception of the moral approbation. That is, no one would believe someone "didn't know any better" if they were trolling the hypothetical NAACP site. I don't think anyone here morally condemns you, but they are expressing their opinion on your word choices.
You wouldn't go to a NAACP chat site and expect no one to complain if you used racial epithets, right?
That's roughly the analogy to what you were doing, with the exception of the moral approbation. That is, no one would believe someone "didn't know any better" if they were trolling the hypothetical NAACP site. I don't think anyone here morally condemns you, but they are expressing their opinion on your word choices.
Chipperman
Member
Assault Rifle is a real weapon description, and I am not afraid to call my M16 an Assault Rifle (and yes it's a full-auto in an intermediate caliber).
Assault Weapon is a media created term that has no real useful definition, and I do not use that term.
Assault Weapon is a media created term that has no real useful definition, and I do not use that term.
Wes Janson
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I'm rather weary of this entire "Make everything PC!" attitude on the part of a large segment of gun owners, towards their own people. Downplaying the capabilities of various firearms, and playing semantics games with others may be defensible tactics, but they're ultimately defensive tactics.
Chewing out posters for not knowing the precise etymological composition and meaning of a generic descriptive term is asinine. The fact that the public doesn't know the difference is precisely the point - harping on about how "We don't really own any assault rifles* *For the complete definition of assault rifle, please see TM-345-16-636D" is futile.
The public doesn't know and doesn't care. Arguments of logic can be successful, but arguing off of obscure technical definitions won't win over the masses. From a descriptive perspective, the term "assault rifle" is close enough and accurate enough for most purposes, and calling them "happy fun boomsticks" won't change a single person's mind.
Chewing out posters for not knowing the precise etymological composition and meaning of a generic descriptive term is asinine. The fact that the public doesn't know the difference is precisely the point - harping on about how "We don't really own any assault rifles* *For the complete definition of assault rifle, please see TM-345-16-636D" is futile.
The public doesn't know and doesn't care. Arguments of logic can be successful, but arguing off of obscure technical definitions won't win over the masses. From a descriptive perspective, the term "assault rifle" is close enough and accurate enough for most purposes, and calling them "happy fun boomsticks" won't change a single person's mind.
Words mean things.
Assault rifle refers to a very specific type of rifle, not the Oly Plinker or WASR-10 at Joe Bob's House of Guns.
As for assault weapons, well, my guns have never assaulted anyone and are for lawful defensive and recreational purposes.
And no, AR15s and Glocks do not use clips. I don't care how much CNN says they do.
Assault rifle refers to a very specific type of rifle, not the Oly Plinker or WASR-10 at Joe Bob's House of Guns.
As for assault weapons, well, my guns have never assaulted anyone and are for lawful defensive and recreational purposes.
And no, AR15s and Glocks do not use clips. I don't care how much CNN says they do.
iamkris
Member
Do you call AP or steel-core bullets "cop killers"? That's what the anti-gunners call them. Actually, the media has referred incorrectly to miltary-style rifles as "machine guns". To most people, the difference between a machine gun and what we know is just a plain ol' semi-auto is an "obscure technical definition".
We should no more buy into this logic than we would start calling all semi-auto firearms "school shooting specials" or "baby-killers", even if that is what the anti-gunners and media starts to call them.
Words matter.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Wes, I really doubt it's a matter of "pc". The deal is to not let the antis define the argument. Force them to use proper terms. So, for instance, when they come up with "assault weapon", you push hard that they're not talking about a real-world item. Force them to be accurate and factual.
This messes them up when you do it. They're operating on emotion via buzz-words, and facts get them all confused. A confused enemy is more easily dealt with...
Art
This messes them up when you do it. They're operating on emotion via buzz-words, and facts get them all confused. A confused enemy is more easily dealt with...
Art
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