Assault Rifle? What's the big deal

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The problem comes from letting your adversary (anti-gunners) define your language. The more you use "assault rifle" to refer to something that isn't, the more "they" win.

Michael Bane and Tom Gresham talk about this a lot. Language is important. The unwashed masses get all emotional about stuff...especially when it looks or sounds scary. You don't need to contribute to that.

Over the last 5 or so years, several pro-gunners in the media have purposely referred to us pro-gunners as "gun rights activists". You may not think that is important, but with the Heller case recently in the news, a lot of the general media used that term. To the lay person, it is harder to argue against someone concerned about a "right" and often have a soft spot for an "activist". Yes they are just words but they are persuasive...even if a little.

Amen, Bravo, +1, Absolutely. Listen to this man. If we use the bogus phrases of the antis, we walk right into their trap and shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[skinewmexico]

It's all about marketing.........ourselves, and our 2A beliefs. So we can try to use accurate language that reflects our reality, and doesn't drive the undecided to the anti-camp. Or we can let the antis define us as paranoid gun nuts, with assault rifles and cop-killer bullets, waiting for a SHTF situation with our BOB. And the antis can reprint most forums to prove it to the undecided. So it's not about being PC, it's also about the undecided.

 

[CBS220]

we are in america so call it what you please

Well, I think I'll take my Ferrari* from the chateau** while hauling my H&H Royal*** down to the shooting range tomorrow!

*- Dodge Dakota
**- House
***- generic rifle

 

[njriley]

For what it's worth, I've always liked to refer to a rifle by its action type - for example, "Stoner rifle" to refer to an AR-10 or AR-15, or "Kalashnikov rifle" to refer to anything in the AK/RPK family. I don't feel it's excessively PC, and it's perhaps more descriptive in my opinion.

Another example might be "10-22"... I have a 10-22, and probably a lot of you guys do too, but we almost certainly don't have the same rifle.

 

[CBS220]

You do have the same rifle. Just perhaps you have done different things to it.

The difference, IMO, between a WASR-10 and a Yugo M70 is far larger than that between a stainless steel 10/22 and a blued 10/22 with an aftermarket trigger.

 

[navajo]

namr

I prefer "sport, utility rifle".

 

[serrano]

Misusing the term assault rifle makes me cringe in the same way as a car ad that lists a three series BMW as having a V6. Or calling a magazine a clip, to keep it in the gun world.

 

[Wes Janson]

Wes, I really doubt it's a matter of "pc". The deal is to not let the antis define the argument. Force them to use proper terms. So, for instance, when they come up with "assault weapon", you push hard that they're not talking about a real-world item. Force them to be accurate and factual.

Great, except it's still defining the argument in their terms-you're bending over backwards to prove that your definitions are correct, instead of fighting on more important issues of why we should own guns.

You're never going to win an argument on a semantics point, and that's the key here. It's just not going to happen.

Do you call AP or steel-core bullets "cop killers"? That's what the anti-gunners call them.

Ahh, but let us not forget that most generic hunting cartridges are entirely capable of defeating lower-level ballistic protection. "Armor-piercing" is a term that requires a thirty-minute lecture on ballistics, weapon types, modern protection terminology, and real-world application examples. You will *NEVER* win an argument in which you have to spend half an hour educating the other side in order to get anywhere.

To most people, the difference between a machine gun and what we know is just a plain ol' semi-auto is an "obscure technical definition".

Precisely my entire point! That's the crux of the whole issue! Your average citizen has no clue what the difference between a machinegun and a semi-automatic rifle is. Your average citizen also does not care what the difference between a machinegun and a semi-automatic rifle is. A ten minute video explaining the differences might educate them, but the vast majority of the public simply doesn't care enough to learn. There are rare exceptions, but that's a different story.

Which means, in terms of real debate, that responding to an argument with "But your definition is wrong! The correct definition of a machinegun is..." will never work. It's a waste of time. The other side will smile and nod and then think you to be crazy. In the real world logically coherent arguments aren't worth the paper you print them on when trying to change the mind of someone willfully ignorant.

 

[AR-15 Rep]

Just call them a "self defense weapon", we can then classify everything from a can of soup to rifles in that catagory. Wonder if They could call a can of soup a bad thing??? There is no one that is afraid of a can of soup, unless you are in a dark room and someone is throwing them at ya....

 

[RenardSubtil]

I got a question...

*** is an Assault pistol?!


...this is in reference to bay area robbery, don't get me wrong i think it's sucks the place got robbed but I really didn't like the subtle tone the writer had about the guns mentioned in the robbery...then again, I DO live in California so wth was I expecting

 

[meef]

Oh for the love of Pete and scrambled brains! Does this never end?

:banghead:

My Saiga .308 is a freaking rifle! My Vector AK is a rifle! My KelTec SU16C is a rifle! My Savage Model 11 is a rifle! My Ishapore 2A is a rifle! My Remington 572 is a rifle! My Mosin M38 is a rifle! My SOCOM 16 is a rifle! Etc., ad nauseum!

I don't own any damned battle rifles, assault rifles, sniper rifles, death ray laser rifles, whatever the antis want me to call them rifles - just whatever.

And I can hardly wait for the next Internet expert to come along and batter me with, "Uh-huh! They are too battle rifles and assault rifles! Just 'cause you don't call 'em that don't make the rest of us wrong!"

Agh! Argghh! Urrgh! Ack!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:




Ahhh... there, I feel so much better.

 

[LawofThirds]

I say let the action determine the name.

So if someone assaults someone with a .410 shotgun or a 10/22, by george, that's an assault shotgun/rifle

You go to war with a musket, congrats, you're the proud owner of a battle rifle.

This is a battleground that liberals are quite adept at fighting in. By labeling hate-mongering against communists as "McCarthyism", they destroyed the reputation and career of a man doing right by his country. It's the same difference between terrorists and freedom-fighters.

 

[CWL]

Recently in Oakland CA, there has been a string of takepover robberies of restaurants in the higher-rent areas.

Local TV has been broadcasting surveillance videos of the robbers -one of which has a Tec-9 POS pistol.

Local TV reporters are calling it an "Assault Rifle" and fanning anti fears.

Choice of words is important.

 

[iamkris]

Wes Janson said:

Which means, in terms of real debate, that responding to an argument with "But your definition is wrong! The correct definition of a machinegun is..." will never work. It's a waste of time.

I don't disagree with that statement.

I DO have a problem using the same language that my enemy does. It does absolutely nothing to HELP our side and could possibly HURT us. So why would you do that?

I never said we should spend our time making 10 minute instructional video arguements. I'm not talking about a full fledged debater here...I'm talking about the soundbytes that, unfortunately, define much of our "conversation" on key issues. If you use a term that the anti-gunners SPECIFICALLY CRAFTED TO MAKE THINGS SOUND SCARY, then you have conceded to them.

I'll say it again, words matter. There is a reason that presidential speechwriters and ad copy people get paid a lot of money. Words matter.

 

[LKB3rd]

Wes, I really doubt it's a matter of "pc". The deal is to not let the antis define the argument. Force them to use proper terms. So, for instance, when they come up with "assault weapon", you push hard that they're not talking about a real-world item. Force them to be accurate and factual.

This messes them up when you do it. They're operating on emotion via buzz-words, and facts get them all confused. A confused enemy is more easily dealt with...

Art

Very good points.

 

[Walkalong]

The public doesn't know and doesn't care. Arguments of logic can be successful, but arguing off of obscure technical definitions won't win over the masses. From a descriptive perspective, the term "assault rifle" is close enough and accurate enough for most purposes, and calling them "happy fun boomsticks" won't change a single person's mind.

Unfortunately, I believe that is true for a huge percentage of people, although not all, and I think we are falling into their trap when we call them assault rifles.

"You can't win a pissing contest with a Skunk"... So.... Don't let them drag us into fighting it their way.

It might work with a few, and sometimes a few is all we need.

 

[x42047x]

a death ray laser rifle would be great

 

[mtnmedic11]

I love the idea people have of "tactical" and "assault" rifles. I wish all the "bad guys" would shorten their barrels, put as much gadgetry as possible on, and generally just train on 25 M reflexive ranges. That way when the SHTF and they run out of ammo rambo style and all their optics break they will be well within range at 500+M when they are running away!

 

[johnnyonthespot]

its an assault rifle if you move in one someone elses position and shoot them first.

its a defense rifle if someone is moving in on you and you shoot them in response to their deadly force...

its a semantics gripefest if you are online in a forum arguing.

thats why my grandpa just called em "GUNS" he didnt say "go up there to the farm and grab my tactical-assault-doohickie rifle..."

he said:

"son go get my rifle"

george carlin would have a field day with all this ridiculous hairsplitting jargon semantics

i dont care what the label is as long as i know what i need something for....

if jessica simpsons name was

"tactical-brain-fart" i would still do her.

 

[aka108]

Some of the gun advertisers make gun owners appear to be paranoid psychopaths in their pictures and words. Sometimes I wonder if they are not in the process of committing commercial suicide.

 

[Sunray]

"...a select-fire weapon firing an intermediate round..." That is chambered in the same calibre as the PBI rifle, but using a smaller cartridge. There have been exactly two ever made. The Stg44 and the AK47. Everything else is a battle rifle when the proper definition is applied. Mind you, that doesn't stop the media or the anti-firearm ownership bunch labeling any rifle with a pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet lug and detachable magazine an 'assault rifle'. Makes it sound scarier.

 

[Mauserguy]

"The problem comes from letting your adversary (anti-gunners) define your language. The more you use "assault rifle" to refer to something that isn't, the more "they" win."


Though I agree with this statement when used narrowly, I have often used the phrase "assault weapon" to diffuse the phrase. For example, the other day I was showing a co-worker a new flashlight, so I refered to it as an assault weapon and assault light. If everything is an assault this or that, then it really doesn't mean anything.
Mauserguy

 

[t3rmin]

I like "defense rifle". Short and sweet. Who can be against defense?

 

[revjen45]

"I prefer "sport, utility rifle".
+1 on that.
How about "Homeland defense rifle"
or "Militia rifle"
or "Fyrd rifle" That'll send them running to the dictionary.

 

[Wes Janson]

I don't disagree with that statement.

I DO have a problem using the same language that my enemy does. It does absolutely nothing to HELP our side and could possibly HURT us. So why would you do that?

I never said we should spend our time making 10 minute instructional video arguements. I'm not talking about a full fledged debater here...I'm talking about the soundbytes that, unfortunately, define much of our "conversation" on key issues. If you use a term that the anti-gunners SPECIFICALLY CRAFTED TO MAKE THINGS SOUND SCARY, then you have conceded to them.

But it's not theirs, it's ours! They didn't create the term "assault rifle", they merely began to demonize it. It was our word first, and that's why I refuse to abandon using it simply because it's been misused by idiots with an agenda.

If the media begins demonizing "Colt 45's", I'm not going to stop referring to my 1911 as a Colt .45. Likewise, I refuse to let someone else dictate what words I use because they're out to take away our way of life. From my cold, dead vocal cords..or something like that.

"...a select-fire weapon firing an intermediate round..." That is chambered in the same calibre as the PBI rifle, but using a smaller cartridge. There have been exactly two ever made. The Stg44 and the AK47. Everything else is a battle rifle when the proper definition is applied.

How do you figure that? Why are the M16, AK74, SIG 550, etc not assault rifles?