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Attempted armed carjacking at a church in Portland, Oregon

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by NavyLCDR, Dec 10, 2012.

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  1. igousigloo

    igousigloo Member

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    I feel that the problem lies in the thinking that the bleeding hearts have that the child can do no wrong. And Dr. Spock told us how to raise our children. We should go back to "spare the rod, spoil the child". I have a scanner on 24-7 and our policemen spend a lot of time getting kids out of bed and taking them to school. A lot of parents do not have any control of their kids.
     
  2. phillipduran

    phillipduran Member

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    I would think the gun in the hands of the kids removes any disparity of force. He can now kill you just like anyone else who has a gun.
     
  3. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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  4. Kendahl

    Kendahl Member

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    I used to work for a major railroad. Prior to legal, civilian concealed carry, railroad security personnel were sworn in as reserve deputy sheriffs so that they could carry on duty. They showed me a shoot / don't shoot training video. One of the situations showed a police officer, who was responding to a shooting report, being confronted by a ten year old kid with one hand hidden underneath his shirt. It was a "do shoot". After a short delay, to give the viewer time to make a decision, the kid pulled out a pistol and shot the officer. The video went on to explain that the kid had shot a playmate and was running away when he encountered the officer.
     
  5. gym

    gym member

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    If you aim a loaded gun at me and it appears to be real, I will have no choice other than to stop you. If I thought I could do it without shooting the kid I would, but once that finger starts to move, all bets are off. I have too much responsibility to take care of my family, a 92 year old mother and 4 grand kids, to allow some misguided youth shoot me for any reason or at any age.
     
  6. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    It's not hard to look.

    http://ccj.sagepub.com/content/19/1/114.short
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418828700089411

    You protect society by reducing crime. You reduce crime by reducing the factors which produce criminal actors, and by rehabilitating criminal actors into lawful members of society. The post that you responded to was an objection to the mentality that nothing can be done with regards to juveniles, since the data does not support that belief.

    What we know about brain development supports the position that treating developing minors differently can be more effective than applying a system geared toward offenders which are not at such a formative developmental stage.
     
  7. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Member

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    Apparently the kid managed to fire 4 rounds off in the backyard before the attempted carjacking, and will be facing charges along with his Felon father.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/12/court_affidavit_said_11-year-o.html

    "The 11-year-old Portland boy accused of trying to carjack and rob a woman at gunpoint with his dad's gun on Saturday had fired the gun into the air four times behind his house earlier that day, according to a court affidavit released Wednesday."

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/...ncart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2#incart_hbx

    "Multnomah County prosecutors Tuesday filed robbery and weapons allegations against an 11-year-old Portland boy who police say tried to carjack and rob a woman at gunpoint last weekend."
     
  8. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Yep. People frequently claim special circumstances why their kids, mentally deficient loved ones, siblings, neighbors, etc. should not have been shot, hit with a board, tasered, arrested, etc., despite them being involved in the commission of a crime.

    Several years ago in Garland, TX, and officer shot a kid with a knife. His sister called the police on him because of his eratic and dangerous behaviors. The dash cam of the squad car showed the kid advancing on the officer as they crossed the field of view more than once, officer with his gun drawn and yelling warnings at the kid. The officer finally had to shoot the kid. The sister was thankful. The parents were outraged. The officer was exonerated. I can't find the vid, but here is a reference link.
    http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/a...ficer-fatally-shoots-knife-wielding-teen.html

    Here is a better news account...
    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48454

    He was cleared...
    http://lubbockonline.com/stories/022801/sta_022801092.shtml

    So no, contrary to a statement made above, shooting a child does not mean you will be hung out to dry.
     
  9. rem44m

    rem44m Member

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     Somebody will probably disagree with this, so go ahead...I'll never consider a 7 or 11 year old an ARMED CRIMINAL. I will consider them a child in need of help. 

    Alaskaman- I was thinking the same thing, and to be honest I see that in people of all ages, we are all God's children and all of us need the same things in regards to love, attention and help.

    No matter who the criminal threatening your life is, it is always going to be someone's child, brother, friend, uncle, sister ect.

    Just a crappy situation, child or adult.
     
  10. Ken451

    Ken451 Member

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    1) they are not going to get "love and attention" from some child services agency. This needs to come from quality parents. Unfortunately, breeding is much easier than responsible parenting. Too many people who breed have no clue, and no interest, in proper raising of children.

    2) unfortunately, by this point in their lives, they are a bunch of years past where they critically needed "love and attention". NOW they have figured out their own way of getting "attention" and it is not good.
     
  11. TheCracker

    TheCracker Member

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    I bet you wouldn't think that if he was raping your wife or daughter.

    Crappy situation? So I
    Come up and shoot you in the face and its a crappy situation?

    I'm at a loss for what to say about this type of thinking.

    A crook is a criminal that chose to put themselves in a criminal act. They usually deserve more punishment than they get for their "crappy situation"
     
  12. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Kids are DANGEROUS
    they fall into two types that go bad
    one is the 'kinda' innocent, they don't think or know the consequences of their action, and are often being led on by more exierenced (older) peer group/role modle

    these are the kids that do something cause of peer pressure and are used by gangs cause they know they will skate with lettle punishment.

    Then are cousiously evil ones, they don't care, either cause the consequences aren't sever or cause they just don't care. An adult mugger will hesitate to pull the trigger, is $20 worth a life sentence, he will beat you and eventually flee if he can't get what he wants.

    a kid, will shoot you (single track mind, make threat, up threat, act out, carry out threat) in part because of the disparity, in part because of the 'loss in face' but mostly because they don't think about it, they do.

    Frankly I'm impressed that she wasn't hurt, and strongly suspect that someone put the kid up to it.
     
  13. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    But they can from foster parents when placed by the child services agency.

    You can also protect society by providing the access and knowledge of family planning so that people who don't want to be parents don't end up as parents. It's more proactive than reacting to the aftermath.

    This can be remedied in juveniles with rehabilitation. Not all of them, but it's beneficial to society to have productive citizens instead of unproductive prisoners.
     
  14. Ken451

    Ken451 Member

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    Neverwinter, I think you are fantasizing.

    Yes, ideal foster parents are great. They are also rare.

    If you haven't paid attention, there is "family planning" already available and it's been available for a long time. They don't think they need it ("she can't get pregnant"), or they want the government support ("free" money and food and housing) that illegitimate kids get for them.

    Again, great rehabilitation may do some good. Great rehabilitation is rare.
     
  15. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    You're downplaying the effects of foster parenting and rehabilitation because it doesn't fit your preconceived beliefs about how we should protect society. It seems that your question about "how do we protect society?" wasn't actually a question.

    Availability of family planning doesn't do much if they don't know about what's available to them. Observe the pronounced teen pregnancy rates in areas of abstinence-only education. Also, accessibility to family planning is under attack: http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/12/planned-parenthood-files-two-new-lawsuits-against-texas.html/
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-planned-parenthood-sues-over-medication-abortions-20121212,0,7428880.story
     
  16. Ken451

    Ken451 Member

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    I am just looking at the real world.
     
  17. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    The real world which has journal articles observing the effectiveness of rehabilitation.

    Like the people who say that we should ban guns to prevent spree killings, you want to address the symptoms rather than the cause.
     
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