Automobile trip to the North East with a handgun

[Frank Ettin]

When I leave my gun with my Bangor,PA cousins it's locked in a steel Brinks carrying case. I retain the key. They then lock the Brinks case in their bolted combination floor safe.

Is this legal Frank and not a unlawful interstate transfer?....

we're getting a bit off topic here. That's probably okay, but I covered the subject in more detail in this post.

 

[Red Wind]

^ That's an interesting post. Another possibility is leaving a gun for cleaning or repair at a PA gunshop in Bangor,PA , then crossing to NJ and NY. TMK, the FFL 01 does not have to register that in his Bound Book.

Then retrieving it on return, possibly paying a small fee.

 

[Sam1911]

There is then the probability that, lawfully, the FFL cannot transfer the pistol BACK to you when you return, as he can't legally transfer a handgun to anyone who is not a resident of his state. He can receive it, but he'd have to send it to a dealer back in FL to transfer it to you again when you get home.

 

[Frank Ettin]

There is then the probability that, lawfully, the FFL cannot transfer the pistol BACK to you when you return, as he can't legally transfer a handgun to anyone who is not a resident of his state....

Good point, Sam. But maybe there's a way around that. See 18 USC 922(a)(2):

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(1) for any person—
...

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; ....​

I know that when I've taken classes at Gunsite more than once a student has had to take his gun to the on-site gunsmith, or one in town, for repair. The gunsmith would then return the gun to him. The gunsmith might have been relying on 18 USC 922(a)(2)(A).

 

[Red Wind]

There is then the probability that, lawfully, the FFL cannot transfer the pistol BACK to you when you return, as he can't legally transfer a handgun to anyone who is not a resident of his state. He can receive it, but he'd have to send it to a dealer back in FL to transfer it to you again when you get home.

NOT if it never goes into his "Bound Book". A repair or a cleaning does not have to go into the BB.. Vegas rules!

 

[Sam1911]

NOT if it never goes into his "Bound Book". A repair or a cleaning does not have to go into the BB.. Vegas rules!

It does if left overnight.

Good point, Sam. But maybe there's a way around that. See 18 USC 922(a)(2):

That makes more sense.

 

[Red Wind]

I'm game. Show me that rule. I have left a gun overnight at least 3 times. New Mexico, 1996, Utah.2000 and Mississippi ,2001 at a LGS and no problems at all getting it right back.

You are 2500 miles from home and your gun breaks down. There has to be a way to get it back without traveling the return defenseless. .

So show me. If I'm wrong, your favorite charity gets $25. This is certainly possible!

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Show me that rule. I have left a gun overnight at least 3 times....

The rule relating to the entry of the receipt of a gun is found at 27 CFR 478.125(e):

(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Except as provided in § 478.124a with respect to alternate records for the receipt and disposition of firearms by dealers, each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms.....

So a dealer taking possession of a firearm must make a record of receipt, which he does in his bound book. When he disposes of the firearm, he must also make a record thereof in his bound book. References to dealers include gunsmiths.

Please donate the $25.00 to the Salvation Army.

 

[Red Wind]

Please donate the $25.00 to the Salvation Army.

So all those 3 LGS in 3 states were wrong? I still don't see it.

But not to continue an aggravation, I'll send Sam $25 and he can drop it in the first SA Kettle he sees in Pennsylvania.

 

[Frank Ettin]

No, they weren't wrong. The receipt and disposition has to be entered in the bound book. But because they received the gun for repair, it could be returned to you without a 4473 and even though you're not a resident of the State. See 18 USC 922(a)(2)(A) quoted in post 54.

 

[Red Wind]

Well, that's good to hear. That must be the way they did the transactions. I did not realize that they still had to put it into the Bound Book. Good to know, Frank.

Still , technically, I was wrong on that point, so the Salvation Army will get $25. It is a great cause.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Thank you, sir.

 

[Sam1911]

That does answer a minor question I've wondered about for a while. I know some FFLs will do this sort of thing and I didn't quite know how they worked it out.

A while back I read a book about a travel trip up through CA to Alaska and the author mentioned that he leaves his .357 with a grocery store which holds an FFL up in ID or WA (can't remember which now) and picks it up on his way back, though he's a FL resident.

I actually emailed the store and asked them about the legalities, but for some reason they never wrote me back!

 

[zoom6zoom]

Have your friends meet you in Virginia and you can practice Open Carry for when it come to Texas.

you can get a non-resident permit in Mass for $100.

technically, yes. Realistically? They make it as difficult as possible. i gave up.

Oh and another heck yeah on staying out of NJ with firearms. Even air guns are classified as firearms in Jersey. Would suck to do a prison stretch for having a Daisy in the trunk.

 

[X-Rap]

I've also wondered about safety deposit boxes, I think some banks forbid it but they aren't supposed to know whats in there anyway. Not aware of nay Federal law against it though.
As far as traveling through those prohibited states, I remember reading how NYS was using truck mounted military scanning technology to view the contents of vehicles at check points as well as driving along streets. Tin foil maybe but the equipment exists and is in use.

 

[Midwest]

Have your friends meet you in Virginia and you can practice Open Carry for when it come to Texas.


technically, yes. Realistically? They make it as difficult as possible. i gave up.

Oh and another heck yeah on staying out of NJ with firearms. Even air guns are classified as firearms in Jersey. Would suck to do a prison stretch for having a Daisy in the trunk.

And don't get caught with the wrong air gun either. And in addition to their "assault weapons" ban, some air rifles are now banned as well. http://gunssavelives.net/blog/gun-laws/new-jersey-adds-several-air-rifles-to-its-banned-gun-list/
.