Which is why the THR staff tries keeping the threads roughly on-topic. And why there’s a “report” button
Bad day at the rifle range
- Thread starter Glockula
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Which is why the THR staff tries keeping the threads roughly on-topic. And why there’s a “report” button
Bandit67
Member
OK no analogies. Not trying to convince anyone that they should reload or not reload.
Yes, shooting handloaded ammo has a level of risk. But don't be lulled into thinking that factory ammo is 100% safe. It most certainly is not. As I said earlier, if you research ammunition recalls you will find that many mistakes have been made in the manufacture of factory ammo including, too much powder, not enough powder, wrong powder, wrong primer, etc. Again, we're not even sure if the old man was shooting reloads that he made, reloads someone else made, or factory ammo. The OP said they "looked like reloads" but it sounds like he isn't exactly sure. We're also not sure if the gun itself was the cause.
We should all try to be as safe as we can when shooting firearms. If you choose to reload, safe practices will minimize the risk. If you choose to shoot factory you can minimize the risk by researching and making sure your ammo, and your firearm for that matter, does not have a recall that might be dangerous.
Yes, shooting handloaded ammo has a level of risk. But don't be lulled into thinking that factory ammo is 100% safe. It most certainly is not. As I said earlier, if you research ammunition recalls you will find that many mistakes have been made in the manufacture of factory ammo including, too much powder, not enough powder, wrong powder, wrong primer, etc. Again, we're not even sure if the old man was shooting reloads that he made, reloads someone else made, or factory ammo. The OP said they "looked like reloads" but it sounds like he isn't exactly sure. We're also not sure if the gun itself was the cause.
We should all try to be as safe as we can when shooting firearms. If you choose to reload, safe practices will minimize the risk. If you choose to shoot factory you can minimize the risk by researching and making sure your ammo, and your firearm for that matter, does not have a recall that might be dangerous.
Nature Boy
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I believe you are wrong, but I won’t be so arrogant as to speaker for all of them, just myself.
I’m confident a KB won’t happen if I pay attention to what I’m doing and follow proper guidelines and procedures.
I pretty sure bad things can happen if I don’t
Nature Boy
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MOA all day? If you do your part?
Mowgli Terry
Member
Many reloaders would not accept MOA.
Hmmm.... If the 116's that have been seen blown up are all WSM's, I wonder if people are loading 7mm Rem/Weatherby Mag or .300 Win/Weatherby Mag data for the WSM's and those larger cases utilize larger amounts of powder inside? I've read the WSM's get the same velocities with smaller powder charges because they're more efficient, and velocity claimed for the WSM line is pretty high. It may lead to an inexperienced or distracted person to miss the correct load data and read the wrong one if they're chasing velocity numbers. I don't know if that is enough to cause one of those, but it may be something...
Those pictures are of A-1 catastrophic failures, not just a run of the mill blown primer or even a stuck bolt!
I hope the guy has some sort of normal life after this.
Stay safe!
The powder charges wouldn't fit. Most rifle loads are in the range of 85-100+% case capacity, with the majority on the right side of that curve.
Mowgli Terry
Member
The reported load level for the 300 WSM is accurate. In my loading the charge of RL-19 comes up to the bottom of the neck. I'll stick to my story of a massive charge of an inappropriate powder.
KB: Every thing was perfect and the gun just blew up!
KB: Every thing was perfect and the gun just blew up!
Not every time but often enough. IMHO the accuracy mania is overblown anyway, if you can shoot a 2" group you're not going to miss any animals, unless you're shooting very long range, which most hunters have no business doing. If you have bad shooting habits it won't matter if you're behind a .30" grouping rifle.
Millions of buffalo were wiped out using rifles that I doubt were MOA.
And if everybody drove like they should there wouldn't be any car accidents. Has anyone on this thread saying they could never have a reloading mishap like the OP possibly was ever gotten a traffic ticket or been in a fender bender that was their fault?
See Murphy's Law.
Let's not have any more factory ammo vs handloaded ammo debating in this thread.
Riomouse911
Member
Makes sense...
1hobie
Member
The mention of a half-filled case tickled a memory from a while back regarding pressure wave detonation. Here's a link to help understand the phenomenon: https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2016/12/20/ammunition-safety-mysterious-detonation-phenomenon/ Regardless the reason for the kaboom, I wish the affected gentleman well.
Mowgli Terry
Member
What we know is a picture of one disintegrated Savage rifle. It would be grand to have more solid information. Where we stand right now is a picture of one disintegrated Savage rifle. Did the owner return the rifle to Savage?
I'm still waiting on hard evidence of Savage stainless receivers being made in China. I'm gonna call Savage and ask them about their policy on damaged firearms as we are discussing. . I will also ask about the made in China receivers. Let's see what we get. Anything else we need to ask?
I'm still waiting on hard evidence of Savage stainless receivers being made in China. I'm gonna call Savage and ask them about their policy on damaged firearms as we are discussing. . I will also ask about the made in China receivers. Let's see what we get. Anything else we need to ask?
Mowgli Terry
Member
As promised I spoke with a Savage rep who was most helpful. Here are the results of the phone call. First up, receivers for the 116 are made in Westfield USA. Secondly: On damaged firearms. Firearms are to be returned to Savage. Damage to the firearm will be assessed and the owner contacted. Here, the the rifle will be checked out for safety and broken parts. Should the firearm be badly damaged where the warranty is voided efforts will be made to take care of the customer. There are a number of options. The parts of that rifle should have been sent to Savage. I did not ask about this wave of blown up rifles. Pack up the rifle parts and send them back. This came as no surprise since Savage went to extra lengths to help me on the my star crossed B-Mag. No rant on conspiracy theories or fake news. If you care to verify this information the number is 413-586-7001.
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FWIW, most recent Shooting Times that I received yesterday (Feb 2019 issue on pages 22-23-Propellant Loading Pitfalls, A. Jones mentioned this as a cause for a kaboom. The person firing reloads only had one powder out at a time, his loads were documented as normal, etc. and the case gave way in a No. 1 Ruger firing a .308. Neither powder bridging, bullet condition, etc. was a cause.
What turned up was that the shooter had reloaded .45 ACP with Unique prior to reloading his ill fated .308 round. Jones believes that the cause was that the powder measure was not totally emptied of the Unique powder before reloading the .308 with IMR 4064 and thus the shooter inadvertently made a binary combination of powder in a cartridge. With that instance, the rifle powder would be on top of a faster burning pistol powder from the very bottom of the measure in the cartridge, this could cause the pressure level to skyrocket to the estimated 90000 to 100000 psi level necessary to damage the firearm.
Takeaway from this is to thoroughly empty your powder measure before reloading another cartridge. All it takes is one bad cartridge to ruin a day of shooting.
What turned up was that the shooter had reloaded .45 ACP with Unique prior to reloading his ill fated .308 round. Jones believes that the cause was that the powder measure was not totally emptied of the Unique powder before reloading the .308 with IMR 4064 and thus the shooter inadvertently made a binary combination of powder in a cartridge. With that instance, the rifle powder would be on top of a faster burning pistol powder from the very bottom of the measure in the cartridge, this could cause the pressure level to skyrocket to the estimated 90000 to 100000 psi level necessary to damage the firearm.
Takeaway from this is to thoroughly empty your powder measure before reloading another cartridge. All it takes is one bad cartridge to ruin a day of shooting.
Run the large hole insert on your powder thrower, and always dump the first charge back in the hopper.
Mowgli Terry
Member
Clearing a Powder Measure: On on a measure with baffles I use a small vacuum sweeper on the last pass. Blowing up a Ruger Number One should get pilgrims picture on the cover of Guns and Ammo
Jim Watson
Member
Had a guy do that here.
He left some Varget in his powder measure when he opened a can of H50BMG for his AR50.
Best the other guy at the range could tell, he fired one round loaded with Varget with notable kick, flash, and recoil. Stiff bolt, too. Undaunted, he touched off another. The next round was less of an earthquake, but still excessive. Still some Varget before the measure got down to the H50BMG. The third was normal. The rifle was not damaged, which was very impressive when he admitted what he had been doing.
Yikes.
Makes me wonder if this is a common explanation for a lot of mysterious one off kabooms where the bullets are pulled and the charges found to be normal. Course, the primary evidence would be destroyed in such a case.
I've always cycled my powder measures after returning a powder back to the original container but I am thinking total disassembly or using different powder measures for rifle and handguns might be in order.
Mowgli Terry
Member
Remember, OP stated that rounds "looked like reloads." We don't know for sure. Totally correct that unintended duplex have destroyed firearms. I'll, for the sake of discussion, stick with the full case of a fast handgun type powder.. Why not support rifle owner in sending parts back. Perhaps Savage can give us an answer.
Jim Watson
Member
Anecdote Alert:
A friend once dumped his powder measure into the wrong can, Varget + 2520. Six or seven pounds of powder involved, he needed help.
I went out to my agency laboratory and borrowed some testing sieves. They are ten inch diameter made in sets with a range of screen openings for determining particle size distribution of granular materials. We found one that would give a clean separation of the extruded Varget and Spherical 2520 and salvaged his powder.
A friend once dumped his powder measure into the wrong can, Varget + 2520. Six or seven pounds of powder involved, he needed help.
I went out to my agency laboratory and borrowed some testing sieves. They are ten inch diameter made in sets with a range of screen openings for determining particle size distribution of granular materials. We found one that would give a clean separation of the extruded Varget and Spherical 2520 and salvaged his powder.
someguy2800
Member
We should not be so trusting of the firearms or ammunition industry that we reject the idea that a rifle could not possibly fail unless the shooter did something wrong. Case in point Remington has been sued 135 times over the Remington 700 trigger going off when the safety is disengaged. Even still it took them 70 years to acknowledge there was a problem.
Mowgli Terry
Member
That Walker trigger business has been talked to death. How about we stay on topic of the destroyed Savage. I think we have gone as far as we can on this happening.
cdb1
Member
ColoradoMinuteMan
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Yeah, this is a good practice in my opinion. It ensures that the powder drop is empty. I also never get more than one powder out at a time. I have one powder container on the bench. It doesn’t get put away until I’ve emptied all measures.
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