Bad experience with LEOs

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Jeff White, we have a sort of understanding with 4 out of the 5 towns cities that we cover, which is pretty much we get done as quick as possible, they look the other way. It's just this one town we have problems with.
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Don't you think it would be easier on everyone involved just to comply with the traffic laws in Londonderry? Maybe your paper could get a Londonderry city councilman to pass an ordinance permitting delivery vehicles to drive on the wrong side of the road for short distances.

You are giving them reason to stop you by breaking the law. If they aren't writing tickets for it, you're pretty lucky. That's probably the next step though. And that will be expensive and time consuming and will eventually cost you your license.

You're not going to win the battle by just flaunting the law and rubbing their noses in it, by continuing to drive on the wrong side of the road. Get the law changed or drive on the correct side of the road while in Londonderry seems to be the best options.

Jeff
 
While I realize on a philosophical level that cops are neccessary in a civilized society...
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Peace Officers are often helpful, but not strictly necessary. Cops (i.e., LEOs), on the other hand, are more harmful than helpful, and are certainly not necessary, unless you are speaking from the perspective of a government official who depends on the ability to regularly sheer the sheeple without consequence. While the historical purpose of the Peace Officer was to serve the public by responding to disruptions of the public peace, a Law Enforcement Officer serves the government by enforcing its dictates on peaceful citizens who are not in any way causing disruptions of the peace. Today, for the most part, we have Law Enforcement Officers (i.e., a force of armed government agents) rather than Peace Officers.
 
After 30 years in LE, I would think that these officers would know you and the car plus have better things to do. We knew all the paper carriers and what they drove and never paid any attention to their driving because of the delivery methods. We wouldn't have cared if they carried a pump shotgun with them due to some of the areas they had to deliver in.
Sounds like these guys need a little supervisory counseling, as they are VERY BORED. I would contact their shift commander / supervisor and see what his attitude is, then tell him about the problem and see if that would do the trick before the lawyer.
The problem is a lot of these young officers have no common sense, nor do they understand the discretion they can use, plus a lot of then are somewhat anti gun as due to the way their trained in the academies. A great majority of these guys do not shoot for recreation and/or competition like they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. It's a straight job - not something they really wanted to do to and to help other folks. There is a difference.
Just as we did before concealed carry permits ever thought about or came out. If the guy was a businessman shutting down at night and carried cash and a handgun we didn't care even tho it was a violation. With the caveat that if he wasn't drinking or causing a problem.
 
may i sugest..........

"atblis
Senior Member



Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 469 I've had nothing but bad experiences with cops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All they do is write my tickets for stupid things. "



:D THAT YOU QUIT DOING THOSE STUPID THINGS! :neener:
 
I think that's the root of the problem these days, w1423 -- cops today are trained to be social workers with guns, they aren't members of the gun culture anymore.
 
You know, I've either had AWESOME experiences with cops, or ROTTEN experience with cops. Never in-between.

When I was living in Arizona, the law enforcement officers in Phoenix, as well as the DPS were always wonderful and professional, even when I was caught driving much faster than I should have been.

Every law enforcement officer save one i've met while living in California had a God Complex. Lots and lots of harassment, and little helpfulness.

Now that i've moved to Texas, my first LEO experience was wonderful. Some vandal destroyed my mailbox, and the Wylie PD actually INVESTIGATED the crime, and found the perpetrators. They then let the perpetrator know it was in their best interests to pay for the repairs, which they did.

All this work for a stupid brick mailbox. I was very happy.

I guess it just depends on where you are.
 
Funny how so few of you "high road" folks are telling him to just obey the law. Here you have someone who is a self proclaimed criminal and yet everyone is suggesting he gets a lawyer??? How about a suggestion for the person to get driving lessons or if you can't drive properly, a new job.
 
The Londonderry PD is known to be full of tools. Every PD has a clunker or two, but the LPD seems to be all clunkers. ;)
 
I guess it just depends on where you are.
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Yes, some police agencies still perform some of the functions of Peace Officers, while most are primarily involved in Law Enforcement, and have largely abandoned the Peace Officer role.
 
Someone might have already said this but here goes. Make sure you get a business card from the officer(s) each time they stop you. Once you have 3 cards with no citations go to the court house and file an official harrassment complaint. Believe me, those are paid attention to and can severly affect their career.
 
I have not had any bad experiences in Houston or in the small towns around it with LEO's. I personally think that people bring those bad experiences with them most of the time. The LEO is just reacting to their attitude.

I have been pulled over a few times in the last few years. Every time I deserved it. I got issued a ticket only once and got that deferred (for the same price). I was always treated fine by the LEO.

In this case, if you are being harassed, you ought to try to file a formal complaint with the local department first. If you are being pulled over for a valid reason, you have nothing to complain about until they actually break the rules.
 
playboypenguin said:
Someone might have already said this but here goes. Make sure you get a business card from the officer(s) each time they stop you. Once you have 3 cards with no citations go to the court house and file an official harrassment complaint. Believe me, those are paid attention to and can severly affect their career.
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So, what you are saying is I should never give someone a verbal warning when I pull them over? Scary world that you want police officers to not use any discretion. Although, I don't believe you really know what you are saying here.
 
Optical, if you are consistently pulling over and "warning" someone without finding reason for issuing a citation then you are harrassing. Notice I said "three" cards.
 
I have to say that in my town, the cops are, with few exceptions, great folks.
I can say that I can see things change just a bit as some FNGs show up, but even with us being scooter tramps, they treat you right until you give them a reason *not* too.
We try to do our part to maintain that relationship. Hell, once in awhile, one of 'em will show up down at the local scooter shop and steal a brew out of the fridge on his off time.
We shoot the feces and everything is everything. That's how I like it.
Biker
 
someone who is a self proclaimed criminal
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You call someone a criminal for momentarily parking on the wrong side of the street at 3am ....?????

I get along fine with my local LEOs, and I even work with them from time to time as a volunteer firefighter, but I sure understand why some folks have problems with some of you all ;)
 
One thing to remember about LEO's is that they are required to enforce stupid laws enacted by the people you probaby elected. Give them a break.
 
Unfortunately, cops are not a force of men going about seeking how to "protect and serve." They don't even pretend to be obliged to protect, as that's unrealistic to start with. Their primary modern purpose is sheep control, i.e., to keep the sheep from hanging their oppressors from the nearest lightpost, and to prevent them from resisting their regularly scheduled sheerings, and the occasional slaughter. They don't actually do a whole lot of serving and protecting.
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Thats my experience I called them as a victim of a crime once long ago, and I found out that I was ON MY OWN, in fact the police officer named the miscreant by name and told me " If you are worried about him coming back BUY A GUN AND LEARN HOW TO USE IT"

As far as pulling over to the left side to deliver a paper goes, since when is it illegal to make a left turn pull to the driveway or shoulder, and then make another left turn out into traffic???????

Thats why they havent issued him a citation becuse he isnt breaking the law.
If he had been driving on the wrong side of the road Ocifer friendly would have had no problem writing him a ticket NONE AT ALL.
But I guess it would be safer for him to sit on the right side and steer the car with a rope, or jump out and run accross the highway to deliver each paper.
 
Don't you think it would be easier on everyone involved just to comply with the traffic laws in Londonderry? Maybe your paper could get a Londonderry city councilman to pass an ordinance permitting delivery vehicles to drive on the wrong side of the road for short distances.

You are giving them reason to stop you by breaking the law. If they aren't writing tickets for it, you're pretty lucky. That's probably the next step though. And that will be expensive and time consuming and will eventually cost you your license.

You're not going to win the battle by just flaunting the law and rubbing their noses in it, by continuing to drive on the wrong side of the road. Get the law changed or drive on the correct side of the road while in Londonderry seems to be the best options.

Jeff
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Isn't this like totally missing the point here? Nashmack main complaint is not that the police are stopping him for a traffic infraction (although there is some minor whining). He's complaining that when the stop him for a traffic infraction, they incorrectly/illegally hassle him about the legality of his weapon. How does your "stop getting stopped" advice fix the problem of the incorrect/illegal conduct that occurs after he's stopped? If they're hassling him, and his solution is simply to ignore that incorrect/illegal conduct and just "stop getting stopped," what happens if I get stopped for a minor traffic violation while in Londonderry with a CCW? Will I receive not only a well-deserved ticket, but also an attempt to confiscate (incorrectly) my lawful CCW? Who steps up to stop the incorrect/illegal conduct?

BTW, this is why my policy is to never inform a LEO of my carry status unless required by law, or by circumstance (i.e. "step out of the car.")
 
if I get stopped for a minor traffic violation while in Londonderry with a CCW? Will I receive not only a well-deserved ticket, but also an attempt to confiscate (incorrectly) my lawful CCW? Who steps up to stop the incorrect/illegal conduct?

BTW, this is why my policy is to never inform a LEO of my carry status unless required by law, or by circumstance (i.e. "step out of the car.")
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AWWW come on now its all for the safety of the Ocifer you do want him to be safe so he can go home to his family at the end of his shift right:banghead:

Quite frankly haveing an officer handle my loaded ccw scares the Heck out of me considering that many of our officers cant even safely handle their own sidearm, and he has probably never handled a gun like mine before. He might accidentally shoot me or himself with my gun due to his lack of familiarity with it.
 
Real Hawkeye

I know of a few LEO’s who are jerks but I also know more that are not. Without law and authority you have anarchy. For me I’m not quite ready to live that way.

Turk

Remember to pray for our troops.
 
If I didnt know better.. Id say alot of LEO got picked on as kids....:uhoh:

Officer are those potato chips on yer shoulder?

aside from children with badges...:barf: I respect and appreciate LEO who have a fair mind, and dignity enuf to understand individual situations...:cool: these officers are often recognized in the front and back pages of their communities for their integrity!
I can think of plenty from both sides.... all from one Dept..
 
Sounds like these guys need a little supervisory counseling, as they are VERY BORED. I would contact their shift commander / supervisor and see what his attitude is, then tell him about the problem and see if that would do the trick before the lawyer.
The problem is a lot of these young officers have no common sense, nor do they understand the discretion they can use, plus a lot of then are somewhat anti gun as due to the way their trained in the academies. A great majority of these guys do not shoot for recreation and/or competition like they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. It's a straight job - not something they really wanted to do to and to help other folks. There is a difference.
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Bingo;)
 
This is basically what I was going to say as well. This is probably closer to the truth than anything, and now it seems you are in a "respect my authority" back and forth with this officer since he probably thinks you are defying his authority. I would advise you talk to the supervisors, especially in regards to being hasseled for your legal carry. It may be in the end you have to stick to our lanes, as silly as that is - it's all about perception and power with some officers.

Most LEOs are fine. People are people. I think one thing is for sure, there is increasingly more of a disconnect between departments and officer training with the citizenry than ever before. People used to be able to be involved more, and LE institutions seems to be more accepting and know their people. You have to now really meet and talk with them, and even then in most middle and larger places it is not well recieved at first. It certainly is a trend that is driving for further disparity and seperation than coming together, unless you live in such a small town that it is impossible not have LE know everyone and they cannot hide behind a I don't know you and care. I know when I and businesses are asked about donating good $$$ for the local LE, this comes right to my mind. They care when they want funds, otherwise - who are you? I have seen this tried in a small town I lived in, and that officer no longer worked there after several incidences. These days, who knows.

After 30 years in LE, I would think that these officers would know you and the car plus have better things to do. We knew all the paper carriers and what they drove and never paid any attention to their driving because of the delivery methods. We wouldn't have cared if they carried a pump shotgun with them due to some of the areas they had to deliver in.
Sounds like these guys need a little supervisory counseling, as they are VERY BORED. I would contact their shift commander / supervisor and see what his attitude is, then tell him about the problem and see if that would do the trick before the lawyer.
The problem is a lot of these young officers have no common sense, nor do they understand the discretion they can use, plus a lot of then are somewhat anti gun as due to the way their trained in the academies. A great majority of these guys do not shoot for recreation and/or competition like they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. It's a straight job - not something they really wanted to do to and to help other folks. There is a difference.
Just as we did before concealed carry permits ever thought about or came out. If the guy was a businessman shutting down at night and carried cash and a handgun we didn't care even tho it was a violation. With the caveat that if he wasn't drinking or causing a problem.
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