Bandit at Sam's Club

[JPG19]

Something interesting happened this morning, let me lay it out for you; I pulled up to the front of a local Sam's Club while my wife ran inside to grab a coke before work. While waiting, a young male and female walked inside, with the male wearing a hat pulled down very low over his eyes, dressed in all black, and he had a bandana covering his entire face, save his eyes. I immediately called the police, but was soon confronted with a dilemma...to enter or not. I did have my concealed weapon on me (ALWAYS do). Normally, I would say no. But, my wife was inside and my 2 y.o. son was in the backseat. I knew she should be out fairly quickly since she was only getting a coke, and considering the size of the club, she could easily have gone unnoticed had this man turned violent. I considered locking my son in the car and going in to make sure my was not harmed or in any danger but have always felt that carrying a weapon doesn't give you the right or ability to become a vigilante officer. I have no military or LEO experience and my wife was unarmed. Ultimately she exited pretty soon after this couple entered and we drove off, still speaking with the police dispatcher. I'm curious to see how you guys would have reacted, and what you would have done had my wife been getting many items and expected to be inside for quite some time. I do not know what happened, aside from the building being checked out by police. Also, given that the female was not disguised gave me some level of comfort for obvious reasons. Thanks.

 

[Sistema1927]

Huh? Was the weather cold enough that he was using the bandanna to keep his face warm?

 

[JPG19]

No, its in the 50's.

 

[steveracer]

I would have followed him in BEFORE I called the cops. Might be a guy trying to avoid the wind. If he does something fishy, then respond with your phone. Otherwise, leave the poor bugger alone.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Does your wife carry a cell phone? Always?

Do you?

Have you ever discussed what you and she would do, if you were separated and a situation went sour? How you would handle it as well as what she would do?

Does your wife carry? Has she ever considered it?

I give you a +1 for calling the police as soon as you saw the situation, but a -4 for even considering leaving your two-year-old in the car alone. Sometimes the hardest thing in the world to do is wait and watch, but when it's the right thing to do - and IMHO it was, in this case - it's what you do. ESPECIALLY when you have a small child in your charge.

 

[Akita1]

I would have followed him in BEFORE I called the cops. Might be a guy trying to avoid the wind. If he does something fishy, then respond with your phone. Otherwise, leave the poor bugger alone.

Such an untenable choice (assuming he was a perp and not some hipster trying to start a new trend) always errs on the side of the innocent in the seat behind you. Think your wife would agree...

 

[JPG19]

She does always have a cell phone with her as well as myself, she is not interested in carrying, despite my pleas. I see no wisdom in "leaving him alone..." worst case scenario, provided he was innocent, is a small chat with police. Big deal.

Fred - I'm curious about your answer. He was seated and buckled into his child seat and appears to have been in much less danger sitting in a locked car than my wife with a potential violent situation. I'll have to give it some more thought.

 

[Akita1]

She does always have a cell phone with her as well as myself, she is not interested in carrying, despite my pleas. I see no wisdom in "leaving him alone..." worst case scenario, provided he was innocent, is a small chat with police. Big deal.

Fred - I'm curious about your answer. He was seated and buckled into his child seat and appears to have been in much less danger sitting in a locked car than my wife with a potential violent situation. I'll have to give it some more thought.

Not that legislating morality is the answer, but in Florida they would have arrested you for leaving him unattended in the car. Do they have such endangerment laws in Arkansas?

 

[JPG19]

Yes, I believe they do. Either way, its not something I would do but today's incident got me thinking. I drive an Acura MDX that has the back windows all blacked out so no one could have seen him. What would you do had shots been fired? Again, I did decide to stay with him after many quick thoughts passed through my mind.

Perhaps playing into my inclination to go for my wife has something to do with my upbringing; my father made very clear that my mother comes first and us children second. He chose her for life, he didn't choose us. I had a great childhood and consider him to be a very honorable man, we treat our ladies with the utmost respect.

 

[Hit_Factor]

I think the OP did the right thing staying with his child and calling 911.

What a horrible few minutes he had.

Sitting safely in my office it occurred to me that in the same situation I might call my wife and give her instruction to move away from the cash and drugs in the store. Then call 911.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

Wait until someone reorts a man with a gun and a 2 year old sitting in front o f Sams!



Remain vigilant, but relax. You'll know when the time comes.

 

[JPG19]

Hit Factor - I like your idea of calling her and warning her prior to calling the police. Perhaps that is the best idea given the situation. Yes indeed they were quite a few tense moments, torn between my wife and my son.

Perhaps one thing that held me back the most and also bothers me the most is that I noticed an inclination towards denial and giving the alleged perp the benefit of the doubt. I am always very aware of my surroundings and consider everyone to be a potential threat, but when confronted with a potential situation, I can't understand where this inclination came from.

 

[Teachu2]

1) Your child is always first priority.
2) Without training, rushing into a "shots fired" situation is insane. You probably can't make it better, but you sure could make it worse.
3) If your wife had a cell, call her and alert her.

I'll gonagainst the stream here and say you did the right things by staying with your son and calling the police. All you were reporting was a suspicious person(s) call, which warranted further investigation. When seconds count, the police need all the head start they can get.

 

[Akita1]

Yes, I believe they do. Either way, its not something I would do but today's incident got me thinking. I drive an Acura MDX that has the back windows all blacked out so no one could have seen him. What would you do had shots been fired? Again, I did decide to stay with him after many quick thoughts passed through my mind.

Perhaps playing into my inclination to go for my wife has something to do with my upbringing; my father made very clear that my mother comes first and us children second. He chose her for life, he didn't choose us. I had a great childhood and consider him to be a very honorable man, we treat our ladies with the utmost respect.

Admittedly I have no idea what I would do, was just thinking that car doors don't stop errant shots and would not trust the law to be on my side on that case. Terrible choice you were facing indeed - I have two small ones and had a road rage incident once with both of them in the back seat. My first instinct was to tell them to cover their ears because I was (almost) ready to shoot the guy through the door but thank God was able to talk the dude down. Always easy to play armchair QB on these threads - glad it ended well for you.

One more thought re: what your Dad said (mine taught me the same): my wife made me swear when we had kids that they would come first, e.g. if something happened during childbirth and there was a choice I was to choose them, not her. Quite the sobering conversation on the eve of parenthood and it changed the way I had looked at a lot of things (she even had it written into her will in case I wavered because she knows how much I love her). Ouch!

 

[RedBowTies88]

I would of went in, A 2 year old would be perfectly fine fastened in the backseat of a car in 50* weather for some time. It would only take a second to go and ascertain the situation.

 

[rspeters]

I would of went in, A 2 year old would be perfectly fine fastened in the backseat of a car in 50* weather for some time. It would only take a second to go and ascertain the situation.

Agreed, I'm not sure if I would have gone in (for other reasons), but a 2 year old is perfectly fine in a car seat for a few minutes in a situation like this (assuming no extreme weather). It's not something that should ever be done unless it's an emergency though, and I would be sure my doors are locked, etc.

 

[coolluke01]

A concern I would have in leaving a child in the car, would be if something happened to you and your wife. It could be a very long time before someone realized a child was in there.

I child is helpless and IMHO comes first, before my wife. She's not completely defenseless like the child, but you also have to weigh the level of danger for each. Not an easy choice.

I thing to remember would be to tell the police that you are going in to check on your wife and that there is a child in ____ car. While this may open you up to legal repercussions, so will shooting someone in defense of your life. There is no perfect and right answer, it's often the better of two evils...

 

[SSN Vet]

The OP was caught inbetween the proverbial "rock and a hard place". Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This is (imo) the best kind of situations for these kind of forum discussions, as different peoples perspecives will vary greatly.

So here's another p.o.v., when out and about with little ones, your best bet is to be as self contained as you can be.... that is to say, plan your trip and take everything with you that you will foreseeably need. Buying soda in bulk and keeping a small plug in cooler in the floor of the back seat will save you an unplanned stop and potential pickle. (and Jr. will always have a sippy cup and snack for the days when you're running late and he's getting cranky)

 

[Trent]

Never run towards trouble, especially when you have a 2 year old in the car to protect.

Your wife, assuredly, would agree that the child's life is more important than hers.

Does your phone have an "Add Call" feature? Mine does. While talking I can hit the + button, dial a second number, and merge the calls. THAT would have been incredibly handy in your situation as you could have called your wife FIRST, to give a heads up, THEN dialed 911 and merged the calls together.

Now you have the police response started, your wife becomes an observer INSIDE, and you are still in a position to protect your child. If the guy starts SHOOTING and the police still aren't there, your wife and 911 are still on the horn together and IF you choose to go in you have a set of eyes indoors to tell you if the guy is watching his 6.

 

[Jim K]

I don't know if that store has metal detectors but some do, so had the OP gone into the store he could have been the one arrested, and to no point. "I came in because I saw a guy with his hat pulled down and ...." That sounds pretty lame, even to me.

That kind of thing is never an easy choice, even for a LEO. If you stop someone acting a bit odd, you are accused of harassment; if you don't, and something happens, you are accused of not doing your duty. So you wait and observe and hope the guy doesn't shoot or stab someone before you can stop him.

Jim

 

[JPG19]

Jim K - No, the store does not have metal detectors. I'm curious as to why you think I would have been arrested had I entered the store. Concealed carry is permitted at this Sam's Club. I'm rather surprised that you would consider a guy obviously trying to hide his face would strike you as lame, but to each their own.

I agree with the suggestion of calling her first and even adding her to a phone call with 911.

 

[Mayvik]

Observe and report. Call your wife with a heads up if you can, as mentioned.

Just because you saw a sketchy looking guy does not mean
- Guy was actually being sketchy
- You saw guy's 2 buddies with shotguns that were already in the store

Little to gain and much to lose by trying to be a hero or even "rescue" the Mrs.

 

[TenDriver]

Kid in the car takes priority over the wife in the store. Bad choice to be in, but it is what it is.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Fred - I'm curious about your answer. He was seated and buckled into his child seat and appears to have been in much less danger sitting in a locked car than my wife with a potential violent situation. I'll have to give it some more thought.

That's why I asked about cell phones. Your wife is an adult and has a certain degree of freedom of movement even inside a big box store. She could, based upon a warning phone call from you, hide near an emergency exit and depart through it at the first sign of real trouble (no doubt tripping an alarm in the process). Or she could leave the store through the main entrance/exit if she was close enough and nothing was happening, and get back to the car. In other words, she has options - multiple options - AND the freedom of movement to exercise a choice among them.

A two year old strapped in a car seat has no such choices. Therefore it is my perception you have MUCH more of an obligation to see to the helpless child who is already in your presence, than to go off seeking an adult and therefore reasonably capable and responsible spouse, in a warehouse sized store, in a situation where you don't know what might develop to delay or prevent your return.

We do a lot of "what if" here, and I can't see anything good coming of leaving a child in the car while rushing off to rescue wife in an unknown situation. That doesn't mean others will agree with me, the main thing is that everything worked out for the best in this case, and you and you wife now have a chance to work out some basic personal security questions in case future events require you to face a similar situation again.

At a minimum the two of you should have an unobtrusive code word for use over the phone or in face to face conversation that indicates something is badly wrong and that you are not joking about the situation being critical.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I found it interesting that you foresaw a worst case scenario (something bad happening) in the man entering the store and yet didn't/don't view your considered course of action in the same light.

If you thought something bad might happened, wouldn't it be consistent to think something bad could happen to you as you entered the store and leave your restrained child helpless and at the whims of cruel fate.
1. You might have been involved is a shooting and wounded to such an extent as to be unable to return to your child.
2. You might have been arrested and been delayed in returning to your child.
3. You might have been struck by a vehicle as you exited your car
4. You car could have been struck after you left it and, with the rear windows blacked out, rescue attempts would have been delayed, as outsiders could see that there was no driver, as the car burned.

These are just a few of the things to consider before abandoning a child in a locked car. If you really need to enter a building...having failed to contact the person inside...it is always best to take your child with you. It you don't think is is a wise decision to enter with your child, you shouldn't enter either.