Bandit at Sam's Club

[Spike_akers]

She does always have a cell phone with her as well as myself, she is not interested in carrying, despite my pleas. I see no wisdom in "leaving him alone..." worst case scenario, provided he was innocent, is a small chat with police. Big deal.

Fred - I'm curious about your answer. He was seated and buckled into his child seat and appears to have been in much less danger sitting in a locked car than my wife with a potential violent situation. I'll have to give it some more thought.

think of it this way, lets say you did go inside. and things did go sour, and what would have been a 2 minute check, turned into a 4 hour situation, or worse, something happened to you, or the both of you, and your child is still sitting in the car? who would know that your child was unattended in the car? no one but the two of you, and you are now obviously not in the situation to do anything about it. theres no one you can really call, you cant call the police because odds are, all efforts are on their way to help you... and making phone calls during a situation like this, isnt normally a good idea. so i would have to say. call the police and wait it out and hope your wife got out okay. the child, is always more important than a spouse... not to be blunt, but you get the idea. now, had she taken your son in with her, you should have bolted and called on the way..

 

[shafter]

Yes, I believe they do. Either way, its not something I would do but today's incident got me thinking. I drive an Acura MDX that has the back windows all blacked out so no one could have seen him. What would you do had shots been fired? Again, I did decide to stay with him after many quick thoughts passed through my mind.

Perhaps playing into my inclination to go for my wife has something to do with my upbringing; my father made very clear that my mother comes first and us children second. He chose her for life, he didn't choose us. I had a great childhood and consider him to be a very honorable man, we treat our ladies with the utmost respect.

I agree, wife first, child second. However, your wife probably would have shot you herself for leaving your son alone in the car, especially considering she came to no harm. If I was that worried about her I would have either A) Called her on her cell and asked her to come back out, or B) Taken my son into the store with me. It's not like shots were being fired or you saw him with a gun or anything. In case you haven't noticed there are a lot of freaks running about these days in all manner of strange attire.

 

[HankR]

wife first, child second

Since my wife doesn't read the high road...

I'd call the wife, tell her to forget the coke and come out RFN, then I'd call the cops. I'd try to pick the wife out right out front and take her to 7-11 for a more expensive coke.

My CCW doesn't enter into it unless the bad guy tries to get in my car and harm my kid, or, if once my wife was back in my sight I thought I could prevent him from harming her.

 

[Kleanbore]

I think it would be extremely imprudent to leave a child unattended in a car, even for a moment.

Someone around here recently left her child in her car when she went into a quick shop for a soda and came out to find the car and the child gone. Fortunately, when the car thief realized that he had taken a small child, he abandoned the car and ran. The child was unharmed.

In this jurisdiction, what the mother did was unlawful. She was arrested, and the child was taken from her by the authorities.

 

[tacxted]

Just two points to consider:
1. Your life changes when you have children...you'll have to trust me on this
2. Do you really think it would be easier to explain to your wife, how you abandoned your children to the whims of fate when you had another choice?

My fiancee and i have talked about "her or the baby what ifs", in child birth, house fire, sinking car, ect.

yes life changes when children enter the scene, of course. i would pick her first.

explaining anything to the wife is never easy.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I am 100 percent certain that the guy was driving a motorcycle. The 50 degree weather is much colder on a bike. I am dressed just like this guy was when I ride my Harley granted I always take off the bandanna before I walk into a store.

Or he could be like me since I passed 45 I have been more sensitive to Cold. So I bundle up way more than I did a decade ago.

 

[mljdeckard]

You did the right thing. About whether to stay in the car at least.

You don't go towards danger. Let people who get paid for that do it. You wife is an adult, smart enough to go into a wholesale warehouse and do business all by herself. So, what's worse: her in there with some bad guys, or ALL THREE OF YOU in there with bad guys? Stay put, be a good witness, and remind her to head out through the back doors if there is ever any kind of trouble.

 

[slamfirev10]

of course. i would pick her first.

good man

 

[NavyLCDR]

I find picking the spouse over a two year old child if you can only help one to be absolutely reprehensible. My wife would probably divorce me if I told her that I would try to save her from something over our daughter. The adult has much much more ability to take actions to save themselves than the child does, especially if it means leaving that child alone in a vehicle. I imagine it is probably only men that would pick the spouse over the child.

Actually, this is why, up until a week ago, the military would not allow women to serve directly in combat - because of the feeling that male military members would sometimes not make the wisest choice if a female was in danger, they would put the majority of men in danger to "save" the damsel in distress. They were right.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I wonder what the comments would be if the husband was in the store, and the wife was in the car, with say a gun in the glovebox.....how many wives would leave the child in the car to take the gun to help the husband.

 

[Spike_akers]

I wonder what the comments would be if the husband was in the store, and the wife was in the car, with say a gun in the glovebox.....how many wives would leave the child in the car to take the gun to help the husband.

few if none. its mothers instinct to stay with the child... daddy can take care of himself --- wife saw it and thats what she said... so theres an answer.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Profiling

That's all this is. The man saw a man with a bandana around his face and let his mind run off to some clint eastwood movie . I can understand the paranoia, And perhaps if it gave me the willies I may have gone in to investigate, But with the knowledge that it was simply me being precautious for my families sake. I certainly wouldnt have called the cops until i knew for sure there was a potential incident about to occur. Theres plenty of reasons for someone to wear a bandana over their face. The least likely of which would be to commit a robbery or a shooting, IMHO

 

[Spike_akers]

Yeah.. I mean he said the girl who went In with him had no coverings... So I doubt he would have done anything... Now... If he had seen say 3 men wearing trench coats and masks... Time to be alarmed... But a bandana, I wear bandanas when I ride my Harley... And have forgotten to take it off before... and since the man seemed to be with an unmasked woman, I say that there's no real need for concern. Noticing things like this guy are key, but being able to tell if he has intent, is necessary before other action should be taken..

 

[Lo8080]

Cycle could continue...what if someone saw you from the parking lot and seen you left your little one locked in the backseat while you went into the store to find your wife. They call cops or child protective services on you and you have to explain to an officer your case.

 

[shafter]

You don't go towards danger. Let people who get paid for that do it. You wife is an adult, smart enough to go into a wholesale warehouse and do business all by herself. So, what's worse: her in there with some bad guys, or ALL THREE OF YOU in there with bad guys?

That's generally my rule of thumb but if my wife was in danger I'm going in come hell or high water. To my thinking all three of us being in there is better than her alone. My first action would have been to pull up right out front and tell her to leave right now.

few if none. its mothers instinct to stay with the child... daddy can take care of himself --- wife saw it and thats what she said... so theres an answer.

I would expect my wife to look after my kid before me. I'd look after my wife first.

 

[henschman]

I would have called my wife instead of the cops. The cops are likely minutes away (maybe lots of minutes), and you are in a situation which if it goes bad, will do so within seconds. Call her and tell her you saw a very suspicious guy go in the store, and to watch out. I would also immediately head inside. It's a question of values. I value my old lady more than any person other than myself. If she is in imminent danger, I will do anything up to and including undertaking a serious risk of death to protect her. The child is not in imminent danger sitting in a car on a nice 50 degree day.

 

[Kleanbore]

The child is not in imminent danger sitting in a car on a nice 50 degree day.

Unless there are kidnappers, car thieves, and/or other evildoers.

The likelihood is very remote, but the potential consequences are extremely severe.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Unless there are kidnappers, car thieves, and/or other evildoers.

The likelihood is very remote, but the potential consequences are extremely severe.

Or it goes horribly wrong inside the store and now both parents end up getting shot.

 

[308win]

The child is not in imminent danger sitting in a car on a nice 50 degree day.

You do that in Ohio and the police come by or a citizen calls Child Protective Services and you are in for a long frustrating day or worse.

 

[henschman]

You have to consider the likelihood, as well as the magnitude, of any outcome. The masked man that you have got eyes on is much more of a likely threat than the possibility of an unseen child molester or carjacker who just happens to be there at the same time. The threat of a CPS nazi or busybody citizen is hardly worthy of consideration when you are dealing with a credible threat to the life of the other person you love more than any other in the world. The possibility of you both not making it out is just one possible way things could play out if the masked man is a shooter, and not even close to the most likely eventuality at that. It would take a very unfortuitous turn of events for you both to be killed or seriously wounded. Even then, for harm to come to the child, it would also be required that neither the police nor anyone responding to the mass shooting notice the child in the car outside the crime scene while they are sealing it, looking for evidence, etc., for long enough for the child to die of hypothermia or dehydration. Altogether a very unlikely set of events, and not worth worrying about when there is this direct of a threat to your wife.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by henschman: The masked man that you have got eyes on is much more of a likely threat than the possibility of an unseen child molester or carjacker who just happens to be there at the same time.

On what basis would anyone ever draw that conclusion?

To whom would a young man covering his face for whatever reason and accompanied by a young woman who is not covering hers present a threat? What kind of a threat? Why would one make such a presumption?

Would it be prudent to leave a child unprotected simply because on did not see any obvious child molesters? See post 54.

The threat of a CPS nazi or busybody citizen is hardly worthy of consideration when you are dealing with a credible threat to the life of the other person you love more than any other in the world.

It would take quite a stretch to conclude that a guy with a bandana constitutes a "credible threat to the like of the other person you love more than anyone else in the world."

And yes, a "CPS Nazi" can have your child taken from you and start the process for you to be charged with a crime in many jurisdictions, but from the standpoint of the child's safety, that is a very low risk indeed.

Even then, for harm to come to the child, it would also be required that neither the police nor anyone responding to the mass shooting notice the child in the car outside the crime scene while they are sealing it, looking for evidence, etc., for long enough for the child to die of hypothermia or dehydration.

It takes a lot less than a minute to snatch a child. Think seconds.

Altogether a very unlikely set of events, and not worth worrying about when there is this direct of a threat to your wife.

What "direct threat?"