Bang, Bang, KaBOOM

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R

Rustler

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I was shooting a match today (last of six stages) using a SpringField 1911 GI Model - Tough gun.

First magazine of the stage and the first three shots go Bang, fourth shot goes KABOOM and my face is peppered with "stuff" :what:

I look down at my hand, and it's still there... the slide is partially open and there are pieces of brass, pull the slide back and the magazine spring and follower are destroyed and the fifth round bullet is mangled and smashed in the magazine. I'm staring at the gun and the RO asking what just happened...

No blood and the fingers are all there - so I drop the magazine and inspect the gun. It seems just fine other than the grips are a little loose; so I slam in the next magazine and finish the stage... :rolleyes:

As I think back on the "experience" it can only be one of two things; round went off before the slide closed - out of battery (I really don't think so) or the stupid reloader (me) had a double charge (which would have been 8.2 grains of TightGroup with a 230 grain bullet) and lived to tell about it...

What I really can't remember and it's bugging me is if that shot hit the target or they called it a miss!! :cool:
 
I think I might've stopped using that gun and that batch of ammo, right then and there.

Then I'd have myself checked out, then the gun, then I'd be pulling bullets.
 
Titegroup is a scary powder in big cases. Sometimes even in small ones.

When I realized a Titegroup .44 Special load I was working on could be QUINTUPLED (5x charged) without overflowing the case, I quit and switched to a bulkier powder.
 
"so I slam in the next magazine and finish the stage.." Because there's simply no way there could be another double charged round in there, right? And besides, I just gotta finish this stage. I'm so glad I don't work as an RO any more.
 
I would have stopped you right there . Stage over!!!!!. That pistol needs checked out by a good gunsmith.
It might have suffered serious damage and may have come apart in your hands after another shot or two and then caused some serious injury .
Its a game not real life or death shooting .
 
It might have suffered serious damage and may have come apart in your hands after another shot or two and then caused some serious injury .
Click to expand...
Not at all likely on a 1911.

The case blew due to an over charge or double charge and all the pressure was released out the mag well by blowing the mag out.

I would strongly suspect your reloading safety check procedures as the most likely culprit.

Then again, slamming another mag in and completing the stage without inspecting the gun & bore was not the smartest thing you ever did either!

Sorry to be so blunt.
But that's the way it is.

rc
 
I would recommend you send the pistol back to the factory to be evaluated after an overcharge event like you have experienced. I have seen quite a few 1911's with hairline fractures of the slide and or frame after a case rupture like you experienced.
 
rcmodel, there's nothing better than a little "blunt" once in a while. I had a Drill Instructor who was pretty "blunt", but you never forgot anything he ever said. Ever.
 
Drill instructors have to be blunt. Smokey Bears fit best on flat heads. :p

That said, an incident like that on the firing line would earn a recruit all the "blunt" his thick skull could handle.
 
Glad you came through O.K.. I use Titegroup at times, never a problem. One has to measure carefully, as with any powder.
 
Do you use a progressive loader and do you inspect every charge (for obvious double charge) before advancing the round?

Assuming the gun was in sound operating condition, this sounds like a classic double charge of powder.
 
Not at all likely on a 1911.

The case blew due to an over charge or double charge and all the pressure was released out the mag well by blowing the mag out.
Click to expand...

That's usually what happens, but there's an exception...and I was on hand to see the results early one Sunday.

If the vent into the magazine causes the sympathetic detonation of 2 or 3 rounds contained therein...the results can be catastrophic and bloody...as in a grip frame bulged beyond repair and driving wood splinters through the palms of both hands...in one side and sticking out the other. Not pretty. The guy was going into shock as his friend got him into the car for a trip to the ER. I packed up their gear and held onto it until they called for it.

Ironically, I'd noticed the badly bulged brass on the ground and warned the guy to stop firing the gun. Even offered to examine it for him. He waved me off, a bit condescendingly stating that the gun had been doing it for 6 months and he hadn't had a problem...yet. I made all due haste to another pistol bay on the other side of the block divider wall. The kaboom and the cries came less than 15 minutes later.
 
As I think back on the "experience" it can only be one of two things; round went off before the slide closed - out of battery
Click to expand...

While technically possible...although extremely unlikely...that the round could have been slam-fired due to a high primer or a burr on the breechface, etc...it's mechanically impossible for the pistol to fire far enough out of battery to blow it up by pulling the trigger. It can't happen.

With the slide .100 inch out of battery, the upper lugs are still vertically engaged. Thus the slide and barrel can't separate and the breech can't open. With the slide .100 inch out...if the hammer falls...it will be arrested by the bottom of the firing pin stop, and the hammer can't reach the firing pin.
 
; so I slam in the next magazine and finish the stage...
Click to expand...

No offense meant, but, as others have said, are you trying to kill or damage yourself? That was really a bad idea. I'd never have trusted that lot of ammo any more, let alone a gun with a "destroyed magazine spring and follower."....whether you can see the damage or not, it may be there.
 
With the slide .100 inch out of battery, the upper lugs are still vertically engaged. Thus the slide and barrel can't separate and the breech can't open. With the slide .100 inch out...if the hammer falls...it will be arrested by the bottom of the firing pin stop, and the hammer can't reach the firing pin.
Click to expand...

How about .050" out of battery?

Can you figure the absence of dwell time into the above equation? Slide .050" out of battery. Hammer hits PF, discharging the round. The slide unlocks prematurely because the barrel did not stay locked up long enough. Pressure is still too high as the case begins to extract. Case head fails.

Could be the case was defective or marginaly strong AND an almost out of battery firing situation occurred.
 
Rustler said:
I was shooting a match today (last of six stages) ... Bang, Bang, KaBOOM ... the slide is partially open and there are pieces of brass, pull the slide back and the magazine spring and follower are destroyed and the fifth round bullet is mangled and smashed in the magazine ...

so I drop the magazine and inspect the gun. It seems just fine other than the grips are a little loose; so I slam in the next magazine and finish the stage
Click to expand...
Glad you are OK.

I would have at least done a safety inspection / a quick root cause analysis / taken a time out. Then perhaps finished the stage.


rcmodel said:
I would strongly suspect your reloading safety check procedures as the most likely culprit.
Click to expand...
+1. I would thoroughly examine the reloading practices step-by-step to identify the cause of the KaBoom and to ensure a future occurrence doesn't happen.
 
I witnessed the same exact thing last year. A guy was shooting a rental M1 carbine and his face got sprayed with powder, causing a superficial bloody mess.

The PMC ammo had a case head failure, possibly due to an OOB situation.

I also had a genuine 'in battery' case head failure with Remington 22's in my Henry. Two in the same box.
 
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Even if a get a squib, I stop shooting with that batch. Means I wasn't paying close enough attention that day......
 
Strange things do occur now and then at PHA.
Click to expand...

Yes they do.

One Sunday mornin' about 10-12 years ago, I came in and noticed several dime-sized drops of blood...shards of black plastic...and a few badly bulged Blazer .40 cases with the telltale Glock firing pin mark. Then I saw one with the head blown completely out. A clue!

Never did hear who was involved.

Remember the guy who was found dead...ruled a self-inflicted GSW...and speculated to have been an accident?

I passed that guy on my way out as he pulled in not more than an hour before he was found. He wasn't alone that day. Another vehicle came in shortly after he arrived. Driver and passenger aboard. I passed that one, too. Had to wait for'em to get out of the way so I could get to the access road.

I don't believe to this day that he shot himself...accidentally or otherwise. I talked to the detective who investigated it, but never heard anything else.
 
I am shocked that the RO allowed you to continue the stage.

I am even more shocked that you jammed another mag in and finished the stage.
This would not be something that I would be bragging about.
 
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