Banning semi-autos and magazines via taxation

[Old Hobo]

The 1000% -- yes, one thousand percent -- excise tax has been brought up again in the House. They did this last year. Here we are again.

Should the leftists take all three branches of government, they could ban citizen ownership of "evil firearms" via laws and if not by laws, by exorbitant taxation -- keeping the "peasants" in their place.

Liberal dogma goes somewhat like this, "If citizens are disarmed, then the felons can't steal firearms and do harm with them. Besides, what right to gun ownership does the hoi polloi have in the first place?! That second amendment thing is totally out of date -- that was then, this is now. Every year, many of our felons are killed by citizens -- that must stop. As for hunting, how primitive, how cruel!"


"Democrats demand 1,000% excise tax on ‘assault weapons,’ high-capacity magazines"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/De...e-tax-assault-weapons-high-capacity-magazines

"More than two dozen House Democrats put forward legislation Friday that would slap "assault weapons" and high-capacity magazines with a 1,000% excise tax, a change that would raise the price of a $500 weapon to $5,000 in a bid to reduce access to guns across the country.

"Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., and 24 other House Democrats introduced the legislation Friday. It’s the second time Democrats have put forward the idea.

"Beyer and 37 Democrats proposed the same idea last year when Democrats controlled the House, but it never moved.

"The text of Beyer’s new bill was not out as of the weekend, and it was unclear if any changes were made from his 2022 version. His bill from last year imposed the tax on any magazine or related device that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

"Under that rule, a weapon that normally costs $2,000 would force customers to pay more than $20,000, a change Beyer argued last year could help 'curb the epidemic of gun violence.'

"Beyer’s new bill was introduced a day after more than 100 Democrats told House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., they are 'disappointed' that House GOP leaders haven’t moved any legislation this year to curb gun ownership in America."
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[AlexanderA]

Don't get too worked up about this. Chances of passage are infinitesimally low.

Note, however, that an "excise tax" would apply to sales of new guns and/or magazines. (Typically applied at the manufacturer level.) Already-possessed guns would not be affected. Since millions of such guns are already out there, such a bill would have no effect on anything, policy-wise. Maybe a small, gradual increase in the prices of used guns.

And that's even before it would fail to pass constitutional muster.

Beyer, the congressman from the district next to mine, is playing to the peanut gallery. He knows this isn't going anywhere.

 

[denton]

Pure political theater.

SCOTUS has already ruled that such taxes to prohibit a fundamental right are unconstitutional.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

No doubt Federal agencies and politicians' security details would have a "special exemption."

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Alexander: Don't place any bets on your theory of "not affecting the price of used guns" as in all things the price of used things are determined by the cost of replacement. I do agree that the bill isn't going anywhere but it does give insight to the left's goal.

 

[PapaG]

I'm probably deluding myself but at my age I have more shooting stuff than I can ever use. Ammo, components, lead, moulds, ec. That said, I'll still fight with my checkbook and ballot to preserve our 2A rights for future generations. I also invested in land, although only 45 acres of timber, bottoms and creek, to assure my kids and grandkids a legacy for hunting, camping, exploring and solitude. There is no limit to the subterfuge the left will use to ruin it for patriotic Americans.

 

[Gordon]

How about a 1000 percent excuse tax on primers and powder

 

[hso]

This is just pandering. Taxing constitutional guarantees out of reach of the citizenry would never withstand the court challenge. It is just fundraising.

 

[AlexanderA]

Alexander: Don't place any bets on your theory of "not affecting the price of used guns" as in all things the price of used things are determined by the cost of replacement. I do agree that the bill isn't going anywhere but it does give insight to the left's goal.

This would act like a less-stringent "Hughes Amendment" for semiautomatics (i.e., freezing the current supply). The big difference, though, is that the number of registered machine guns in 1986 is only a tiny fraction of the number of semiautomatcs currently owned today. And consider that people have been "overbuying" semiautomatics for years in anticipation of just such a crackdown. So, the existing supply is more than enough to sustain the market for many years, without much of an increase in prices.

I would venture to say that anybody who might want an AR-15, already has several.

 

[JohnKSa]

It didn't take long for magazine prices to go up during the Federal AWB. I remember I bought a Glock 20 a couple of years before the AWB kicked off. The mags originally sold for under $20, but near the end of the ban, the 5 factory mags I had for the gun were worth way more than the gun was. They went up by a factor of 6 in less than 10 years.

Of course, there were some mags that didn't change much because there were tons of them. Beretta 92 mag prices went up, but not to the same crazy extent. It does tend to have a pretty negative effect on new designs--they either use existing mags or have to stay under the capacity limit.

 

[starling]

It didn't take long for magazine prices to go up during the Federal AWB. I remember I bought a Glock 20 a couple of years before the AWB kicked off. The mags originally sold for under $20, but near the end of the ban, the 5 factory mags I had for the gun were worth way more than the gun was. They went up by a factor of 6 in less than 10 years.

Of course, there were some mags that didn't change much because there were tons of them. Beretta 92 mag prices went up, but not to the same crazy extent. It does tend to have a pretty negative effect on new designs--they either use existing mags or have to stay under the capacity limit.

I seem to remember Springfield selling XD pistols with modified Beretta magazines. It had a pretty major effect on 40S&W pistols because ... why carry a pistol with 10 rounds of 9mm when you can have 10 rounds of 40S&W or even 45acp? 1911s got popular again. Shotgun news was your friend because there were always lots of ads for Hidden caches of preban magazines that places like CDNN Investments would dig up somewhere in the world. Asian Beretta mags were a little thin but functioned pretty well. KRD Browning magazines were popular. Forums online were always having alerts for magazines being available here or there and then everyone rushed to order a bunch before they sold out which wasnt long a lot of times.

I remember the AWB days very well. Factory Preban magazines were like gold. A lot of us were modifying Beretta magazines for different newer designs like the XD or Walther P99. Seems like S&W 5900 series Mags were being modified for sigmas but I never did any because I was able to track down a bunch of the 1st generation Sigma 17rd mags. Lots of new rifles were being based around AR15 mags and also Sten with all the MPA Mac11 semi autos.
It certainly threw a monkeywrench into the scene for firearms enthusiasts. guns were not nearly as popular back then either. I can only imagine now LOL. Glock magazines would have been insanity if the industry back then was the same as now. These days the 3d printers would be rolling nonstop with people trying to figure out how to make a glock magazine. The prices on glock magazines were actually one of the things that kept me away from them.

I still cant believe they let that ban sunset. Almost nobody did. Those were long years and it was all for nothing.

 

[JohnKSa]

I still have a batch of the South African "Beretta" mags.

 

[caribou]

That is EXACTLY the how , why and way the 200$ tax on full auto, silencers, and Destructive Devices came along in 1934 National Firearms Act.
Might as well throw in registry requirement with all the bells and whistles of a background check, finger printing, photos and asking law enforcement for permission, while waiting months, tying up money and getting refused, for no particular reason.

This doubled the price of a Thompson Submachinegun, and to keep the common working man from owning them

In 10 years with the way inflation is going, a 1000% tax will be easily affordable, like the way the prohibitively high (in 1934) is now day not that much of a financial hurdle.


The sad part is that Criminals will contenue to ignore any and all laws regarding guns, murder, theft, rape and robbery, no matter what Congress does.

 

[old lady new shooter]

curb gun ownership

Note they stated their true goal.

 

[old lady new shooter]

How about a 1000 percent excuse tax on primers and powder

Nice typo.

 

[DoubleMag]

Should the leftists take all three branches of government, they could ban citizen ownership...

Not necessary to takie all 3 branches, there's always wheelin' dealin' Mitch to....''assist.'' I remembe....

....

.... oops sorry, I kinda froze up there for 30 seconds or so....hmm...

 

[AlexanderA]

That is EXACTLY the how , why and way the 200$ tax on full auto, silencers, and Destructive Devices came along in 1934 National Firearms Act.

Yes. except that full-auto guns were "niche items" in 1934. AR's are now totally mainstream. The raw numbers would be the undoing of any such scheme. And remember, that unlike in 1934, 1968, 1986, and 1994, people have been on notice for years that such bans and restrictions are coming, and have been able to put aside huge stores of the threatened items. The amount of modern guns in America's private arsenals is mind-boggling.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Yes. except that full-auto guns were "niche items" in 1934. AR's are now totally mainstream. The raw numbers would be the undoing of any such scheme. And remember, that unlike in 1934, 1968, 1986, and 1994, people have been on notice for years that such bans and restrictions are coming, and have been able to put aside huge stores of the threatened items. The amount of modern guns in America's private arsenals is mind-boggling.

A good example of heeding the old saying, "Forewarned is Forearmed."

 

[Ranger99]

Nobody ( even a good many legal gun
owners) ever want to say it
There's a good many people that need
to be confined either in the penal system
or in mental facilities that will not, or
can not obey the agreed upon rules of
a civilized society.
Instead we enable and make excuses
for law breaking and erratic behavior.
( I may have posted this here before )
I have a couple of neighbors that have
relatives that are career criminals and
dope addicts that have been in prison
multiple times. Every time they're
released, they go right back to stealing
and hard core drug use and dealing.
The families make excuses and enable
this behavior time after time after
time. It's not just here. It's everywhere.
Many choose not to acknowledge it
and look the other way
People that can't legally own firearms
are what needs controlling

 

[crestoncowboy]

It didn't take long for magazine prices to go up during the Federal AWB. I remember I bought a Glock 20 a couple of years before the AWB kicked off. The mags originally sold for under $20, but near the end of the ban, the 5 factory mags I had for the gun were worth way more than the gun was. They went up by a factor of 6 in less than 10 years.

Of course, there were some mags that didn't change much because there were tons of them. Beretta 92 mag prices went up, but not to the same crazy extent. It does tend to have a pretty negative effect on new designs--they either use existing mags or have to stay under the capacity limit.

It only took a day during the panicks for pmags to be 25-50 bucks 6-7 years ago too. And by then A bajillion had been made and bought. Far from niche. I was at an auction where used ar mags were selling for 25-50 each and prior left and went home and brought theirs back to sell them. Lol

 

[Old Hobo]

Don't get too worked up about this. Chances of passage are infinitesimally low.

Note, however, that an "excise tax" would apply to sales of new guns and/or magazines. (Typically applied at the manufacturer level.) Already-possessed guns would not be affected. Since millions of such guns are already out there, such a bill would have no effect on anything, policy-wise. Maybe a small, gradual increase in the prices of used guns.

And that's even before it would fail to pass constitutional muster.

Beyer, the congressman from the district next to mine, is playing to the peanut gallery. He knows this isn't going anywhere.

Everybody knows it won't pass and everyone knows that this is political theater. Sure.

Thing is, the left is out of the closet concerning their open hostility to Liberty. What I could say now would be a stream of political talk. No need. We all know that the USSA is now an irrevocably divided country. One side believes in Constitutional government and the other wants to burn the Constitution (and the flag).

I'm glad that the leftist are showing their cards. It's a tad bit of honesty -- rare for them.
.

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm glad that the leftist are showing their cards. It's a tad bit of honesty -- rare for them.

Strictly speaking, guns are not a right-left issue. Congressman Beyer, for example, is the owner of a Volvo dealership. Bloomberg, as we know, is a multi-billionaire. These people are not communists. (The true communists, on the other hand, like their guns.)

Their antigun crusade is something that they truly believe is for the good of society. The fact that it wouldn't work seems to have escaped them.

 

[Gordon]

Nobody ( even a good many legal gun
owners) ever want to say it
There's a good many people that need
to be confined either in the penal system
or in mental facilities that will not, or
can not obey the agreed upon rules of
a civilized society.
Instead we enable and make excuses
for law breaking and erratic behavior.
( I may have posted this here before )
I have a couple of neighbors that have
relatives that are career criminals and
dope addicts that have been in prison
multiple times. Every time they're
released, they go right back to stealing
and hard core drug use and dealing.
The families make excuses and enable
this behavior time after time after
time. It's not just here. It's everywhere.
Many choose not to acknowledge it
and look the other way
People that can't legally own firearms
are what needs controlling

Make no mistakes, I agree that this is the whole problem.

 

[hso]

Everybody knows it won't pass and everyone knows that this is political theater.

Sums it up.

These politicians are just establishing their Anti bonafides and the proposed legislation is just to help them in their fundraising.

Things like this are worth taking note of, but not of making much of beyond noting the supporters of such absurdity.

 

[Old Hobo]

Strictly speaking, guns are not a right-left issue. Congressman Beyer, for example, is the owner of a Volvo dealership. Bloomberg, as we know, is a multi-billionaire. These people are not communists. (The true communists, on the other hand, like their guns.)

Their antigun crusade is something that they truly believe is for the good of society. The fact that it wouldn't work seems to have escaped them.

OK, instead of Left vs. Right, we could say pro-centralized government vs. Constitutional small government.

Anti-Constitutionalists are either ones wanting firearm registration-then-confiscation or those who are willing to kowtow to Big Brother edicts. Either way, they are enemies of the U.S. Constitution. Anyone who imagines registration as a benign acquiescence is too naive to reckon with.

Centralized regimes need weak people and sycophants.

Leftists want to open our borders to migrants from countries wherein the masses have been conditioned to be subservient, to be willing to bow to the edicts of regimes.
.