Before You Buy An RDS Check For Astigmatism

[twofewscrews]

It’s an interesting topic,
As I have gotten older, my astigmatism has gotten worse.
It’s not just red dots. I first noticed that the rear peep sights are no longer round, they are a slanted oval.
What I have found with my red dots is that I have the least trouble if I adjust them to the light conditions, meaning I need to set them near the lowest setting I can see and then they look more like a dot. The brighter the ambient light, the higher I can set the red dot intensity.
if it looks like a splat or multiple dots, I need to turn it down.

I've found that when tired my astigmatism is worse. If I have an early day and drive to work at 5:30 the lights are almost as they should be whereas driving home after a long day at work in the winter its noticeably worse.

 

[twofewscrews]

I am on the same boat, and the work around for me is/was to switch to a green optic. Inexpensive red dot sights were good up until 7 years ago, plus the constant use of computer monitors made this worst. I am fond of optics capable to display a combination of dot only, ring and dot or ring only. Holosun are my favorite on pistols and rifles.

These days computer monitors, or any screen really, make my eyes feel like death after a couple hours. In my youth I played a lot of video games in dark rooms late into the night and I'm sure that has something to do with it.

 

[twofewscrews]

Ive got 'eagle' eyes. Great at a distance but blurry as heck at 6 inches and closer. For an RDS or iron sights, i place them past that distance (above the chamber on an AR15) and get a clear picture. Dunno if that would help in this situation or not. Also makes it so i cant use binoculars. I just look through one lol!

Green is the first color our eyes register. Its brighter and therefore the power can be turned down farther.

I'm nearsighted, I think is the term, which means I can't see so good far but within ten feet my eyes are golden. I remember as a 20 something I got glasses while living in NYC which almost lead to my death. I didn't realize when crossing the street late at night in various states of intoxication that I compensated for my poor eye sight with my ears. I was so not used to see that with the glasses on I stopped using my ears but I did not start looking for traffic. One night I almost got creamed and swore off the glasses.

 

[twofewscrews]

I have bad astigmatism in both eyes. This goes against the grain but red dots are less blurry to me when I’m not wearing my glasses.

As I've understood eveyones astigmatism is different and what works or doesn't work for one may or may not work for another.

 

[cdb1]

I've found that when tired my astigmatism is worse. If I have an early day and drive to work at 5:30 the lights are almost as they should be whereas driving home after a long day at work in the winter its noticeably worse.

My astigmatism is worse when it’s dark too.

 

[The Glockodile]

Your red dot is perfectly fine...

...but your old eyes suck!

 

[The Glockodile]

I've found that when tired my astigmatism is worse. If I have an early day and drive to work at 5:30 the lights are almost as they should be whereas driving home after a long day at work in the winter its noticeably worse.

My astigmatism is worse when it’s dark too.

“...it’s just physics.”

 

[BudrowBob]

I never really used any RDS until about a year ago, and I got educated about my astigmatism real quick.

The starburst was more pronounced in low light conditions and all but vanished when I took it out to the range for the first time in bright sunny conditions.

I noticed the same thing.
Out in the bright sun the red dot was just fine, but when I came inside, the dot was horrible, until I lowered the brightness, then it became a dot again.
I know everyone's astigmatism can be different, but for me, it's all about adjusting the dot brightness for the shooting conditions.

I have found that another consideration is dot size.
My astigmatism has less problems with my Romeo 5 which is a 2MOA dot than with my Strikefire II which is a 4MOA dot,

I have had an Eotech holographic sight for several years, and it's never really been a problem with my astigmatism.
It does look slightly fuzzy, but an easy way to check any RDS is to take a picture through it, the photo will show what it actually looks like vs. what you see.

Thanks twofewscrews for the information about prism sights, I have never tried one but now I'm going look into them.

 

[12Bravo20]

The holographic and prism sights work differently than a LED emitting red dot sight. SO those two won't bloom like a red dot for people with astigmatism.

As many of us have said, adjust the brightness if the reticle is blooming. Normally turning the brightness don helps. I have also noticed that 4 MOA dots are worse than 2 MOA dots. And for a lot of us, switching from a red reticle to a green reticle also helps.

As others have mentioned, everyones' astigmatism is different. Go with what works best for you.

 

[jmorris]

My eyes used to be better than they are now. You have probably know people that have had the same issues, “I don’t like to drive at night anymore.” Is pretty common.

I find that turning the dot to its lowest usable intensity is the best for me.

That might me all the way “up” during the day but turned “down” in the dark.

 

[twofewscrews]

View attachment 1072533

“...it’s just physics.”

Damn your physics to hell

 

[mljdeckard]

I do have bad astigmatism, and I am switching to an LVPO because of this issue.

 

[wichta5003]

Interesting thread! I came here to post some of my observations about red dot sights and astigmatism, and I found this thread.
I became interested in red dots because of my astigmatism. For years and years now, I've noticed that when driving at night that the traffic lights have the stretched-blur look, like the picture in the first post. Especially the red traffic lights. The green traffic lights, less so.
My solution has been to use green dots. Right now I have two of my Glock pistols fitted with Holosun HE407K-GR X2 dots. The green dot is 6 MOA in size. Sounds big, but it's not all that big at all.
For now, green dots are my go to solution because I can see the dot clear and round with my naked eye.
I'm probably going to sell my two Steiner prism rifle scopes (3x and 5x) and my Swampfox 1x prism rifle scope. Once I sell them I'll be able to afford to replace them with green dot optics. Green dots have another thing in favor of them - they seem to have unlimited eye relief. In the case of my AR-15's, I have to mount my prism scopes as far back as possible to get a decent sight picture, without obstruct my charging handle. If I go with green dots, I'm thinking I can mount them a little further down and still get a sharp dot. Unless I'm missing something!

 

[twofewscrews]

Green dots have another thing in favor of them - they seem to have unlimited eye relief. !

As I understand it dot sights, red or green or otherwise, have unlimited eye relief whereas prism scopes and traditional scopes do not. You can mount them anywhere you like and they will work. The unlimited eye relief was one of the things that made me want a dot sight to begin with. I've found that in bright sunny conditions my astigmatism is almost completely gone but in low light conditions it makes the red dot sight look like a crazy star burst. At some point I may purchase a green dot sight to see if it works better then a red dot sight, but until then I'll just shoot use my red dot in bright sunny conditions. My RDS is primarily a range toy so getting one that works for me in all conditions is not a priority.

I am semi interested in purchasing a prism scope but due to the eye relief issue, the price of point of a usable one, and its use as a range toy as opposed to a tool I will use I don't foresee myself purchasing one anytime soon. I am curious, does the prism scope work for you as its supposed to? Is the eye relief/obstruction of the charging handle the only reason you are going to replace your prism scopes with dot sights or are there other factors in play?

 

[wichta5003]

As I understand it dot sights, red or green or otherwise, have unlimited eye relief whereas prism scopes and traditional scopes do not. You can mount them anywhere you like and they will work. The unlimited eye relief was one of the things that made me want a dot sight to begin with. I've found that in bright sunny conditions my astigmatism is almost completely gone but in low light conditions it makes the red dot sight look like a crazy star burst. At some point I may purchase a green dot sight to see if it works better then a red dot sight, but until then I'll just shoot use my red dot in bright sunny conditions. My RDS is primarily a range toy so getting one that works for me in all conditions is not a priority.

I am semi interested in purchasing a prism scope but due to the eye relief issue, the price of point of a usable one, and its use as a range toy as opposed to a tool I will use I don't foresee myself purchasing one anytime soon. I am curious, does the prism scope work for you as its supposed to? Is the eye relief/obstruction of the charging handle the only reason you are going to replace your prism scopes with dot sights or are there other factors in play?

Hello twofewscrews, yes my prism scopes work fantastic, my only gripe is the short eye relief just like a normal scope. That factor is true of my high-quality German-made Steiners, and my cheap chinese-made Swampfox.
Truth is, I'd gladly just keep them if it wasn't for the eye relief thing. I have to choke up my face onto the scope just to get a good sight picture.

 

[BudrowBob]

As I understand it dot sights, red or green or otherwise, have unlimited eye relief whereas prism scopes and traditional scopes do not. You can mount them anywhere you like and they will work. The unlimited eye relief was one of the things that made me want a dot sight to begin with. I've found that in bright sunny conditions my astigmatism is almost completely gone but in low light conditions it makes the red dot sight look like a crazy star burst. At some point I may purchase a green dot sight to see if it works better then a red dot sight, but until then I'll just shoot use my red dot in bright sunny conditions. My RDS is primarily a range toy so getting one that works for me in all conditions is not a priority.

I am semi interested in purchasing a prism scope but due to the eye relief issue, the price of point of a usable one, and its use as a range toy as opposed to a tool I will use I don't foresee myself purchasing one anytime soon. I am curious, does the prism scope work for you as its supposed to? Is the eye relief/obstruction of the charging handle the only reason you are going to replace your prism scopes with dot sights or are there other factors in play?

Have you tried turning down the brightness in low light conditions? that works for me.
I have a Strikefire II which is red and green, both dots basically look the same.

 

[twofewscrews]

Have you tried turning down the brightness in low light conditions? that works for me.
I have a Strikefire II which is red and green, both dots basically look the same.

I wish that worked. Turning down the brightness in low light conditions turn it from a crazy star burst to a blurry dot with star like characteristics but in sunny conditions its almost a perfect dot.

 

[The Glockodile]

...in sunny conditions its almost a perfect dot.

Your pupil's contracted the most in bright light, "pinholing" all incoming rays of light, thusly transmitting images in sharp focus! In cameralingo, you're at f/32!

Science!!!

Is your astigmatism fixable by glasses or some highly reimbursable neosurgical procedure?

 

[BudrowBob]

I wish that worked. Turning down the brightness in low light conditions turn it from a crazy star burst to a blurry dot with star like characteristics but in sunny conditions its almost a perfect dot.
View attachment 1074632

Your sketch is nice. The middle one is probably close to what I see as well in low light.
It's much better than the first and it's something I can work with to get rounds on target,
because, while not perfect there is enough circle there to be "close enough".


YMMV

 

[twofewscrews]

View attachment 1074637Is your astigmatism fixable by glasses or some highly reimbursable neosurgical procedure?

Glasses would probably work if I didn't break them within a month. In my late teenage years/early 20's I tried wearing glasses and non of them lasted more then three weeks. I either broke them or lost them. My insurance at the moment sucks and even if it didn't if it ain't something life threatening I ain't going under the blade to get it fixed.

 

[twofewscrews]

Your sketch is nice. The middle one is probably close to what I see as well in low light.
It's much better than the first and it's something I can work with to get rounds on target,
because, while not perfect there is enough circle there to be "close enough".


YMMV

If I had to I could probably use the middle image to get rounds on target in low light, but for me its a range toy and not a life saving tool.
I decided to practice and improve my ability to hit targets in low light conditions using iron sights instead of spending more cash/time/energy on a RDS that will most in likely hood never see a defensive use.

 

[twofewscrews]

Hello twofewscrews, yes my prism scopes work fantastic, my only gripe is the short eye relief just like a normal scope. That factor is true of my high-quality German-made Steiners, and my cheap chinese-made Swampfox.
Truth is, I'd gladly just keep them if it wasn't for the eye relief thing. I have to choke up my face onto the scope just to get a good sight picture.

That's good to know. I've really only heard good things about prism optics with the exception of the limited eye relief and how/where it gets placed on a rifle.

 

[ECVMatt]

Because of my astigmatism, I have begun to slowly replace some of my RDS with this:

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary...th-red-illuminated-acss-cyclops-gen-2-reticle

They have several styles in both red and green that are calibrated to specific calibers. They are pretty small and fix my astigmatism problem with red dots. As a plus, the etched reticle works with no power so you alway have something to work with in the optic.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

This thread amuses me because of all the “I have that too!” comments. And I’m here to join y’all in it lol. I have an astigmatism as a 24yo.

I wanted to get a red dot for my “brush gun” for those quick reactive shots on deer. I noticed immediately that the nice pistol red dots I were looking at were massive. A 3 MOA dot would almost double in size to what it’s supposed to be. So I shopped around and was told to try the holographic route, and I looked in stores and they looked great. Even though my astigmatism still affected the holographic it had a 1MOA center dot which didn’t explode to badly and I liked the other known features of a Holographic So I saved my pennies and bought one on sale because they’re pretty pricey. While playing with it in my basement I was pretty bummed out. It appeared to be wildly blown up. But I got it mounted to the gun and took it shooting and its a world a difference outdoors. Just watch your brightness settings and you’re fine.

But now I’m curious if I could have saved some pennies going the Prism route? But one of the things I liked about the holographic was if you can see the reticle crooked or otherwise, it is where the shot will land. Is that the same with a prism optic? Or is it more like a scope where you can’t see the reticle unless you’re properly lined up?

 

[BudrowBob]

This thread amuses me because of all the “I have that too!” comments. And I’m here to join y’all in it lol. I have an astigmatism as a 24yo.

I wanted to get a red dot for my “brush gun” for those quick reactive shots on deer. I noticed immediately that the nice pistol red dots I were looking at were massive. A 3 MOA dot would almost double in size to what it’s supposed to be. So I shopped around and was told to try the holographic route, and I looked in stores and they looked great. Even though my astigmatism still affected the holographic it had a 1MOA center dot which didn’t explode to badly and I liked the other known features of a Holographic So I saved my pennies and bought one on sale because they’re pretty pricey. While playing with it in my basement I was pretty bummed out. It appeared to be wildly blown up. But I got it mounted to the gun and took it shooting and its a world a difference outdoors. Just watch your brightness settings and you’re fine.

But now I’m curious if I could have saved some pennies going the Prism route? But one of the things I liked about the holographic was if you can see the reticle crooked or otherwise, it is where the shot will land. Is that the same with a prism optic? Or is it more like a scope where you can’t see the reticle unless you’re properly lined up?

The prism optics are like a scope, you need a consistent cheek weld.