Beginner reloading problems

[Stefan A]

Hi

So, I just finished reloading my first 7 rounds ever - obviously I am brand new to this. Using the Lee Classic Turret and Lee 9mm 4 die set. I am using Everglades plated RN 115 bullets. I am noticing 3 potential problems. Problem 1 is my OAL is not consistent. I want my length to be 1.140. 3 of them turned out that size and the others were as long as 1.146. Problem #2 is that after doing the crimp, there's a slight protrusion in the brass where the bullet is seated. Problem #3 is that it looks like there are slight differences in the seating depth of the primers. They are all lower than the edge. It just seems a few are slightly lower than others. So, any advise would be appreciated.

Not that it matters for these problems, but I am using 4.1g of Ram Zip.

Stefan

 

[AJC1]

Problem 3 is not really a problem as long as they are all seated below flush. The only fix is to use a primer pocket uniformer tool to cut them all to the same depth.

Number 2 sounds you're over crimping. When first starting out over crimping is very easy to do oh, you're only trying to remove the flair on 9mm.

 

[fxvr5]

Hi

So, I just finished reloading my first 7 rounds ever - obviously I am brand new to this. Using the Lee Classic Turret and Lee 9mm 4 die set. I am using Everglades plated RN 115 bullets. I am noticing 3 potential problems. Problem 1 is my OAL is not consistent. I want my length to be 1.140. 3 of them turned out that size and the others were as long as 1.146. Problem #2 is that after doing the crimp, there's a slight protrusion in the brass where the bullet is seated. Problem #3 is that it looks like there are slight differences in the seating depth of the primers. They are all lower than the edge. It just seems a few are slightly lower than others. So, any advise would be appreciated.

Not that it matters for these problems, but I am using 4.1g of Ram Zip.

Stefan

It's not unusual for there to be differences in OAL. .006" is not a problem.

Where's the bulge after you crimp? Is the bulge at the crimp or lower at the base of the bullet?

Do your loaded rounds fit in the gun's chamber? They should plunk in and be free to spin.

 

[Average Joe]

Seating primers below is good, above not so good.
The slight bulge is normal
If it's mixed brass, the OAL might be different, all shells are not created equal , your in the ballpark with your lengths.

 

[forty_caliber]

Howdy and welcome to THR.

.40

 

[Jeff62]

All of the above are great comments. I started rolling my own in the early 80’s and I have seen my motor skills develop over time. Learning how much manual pressure to apply in the various functions of reloading resulted in consistency and becomes more consistent ammo.
High primers and double charges of fast powder are the big things to watch for.

 

[AJC1]

Mixed brass is a totally different game to single manufacturer brass. S and b and a few others are very hard. Generally they will not seat as deep for the same setting on the die.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

You're not having very serious problems at all.
In fact, you want your primers slightly deeper than flush.
Also, I don't think that .006 is going to make a hill of beans worth of difference. If they chamber fine, they'll shoot fine within those perameters.
Also, the slight bulge may indicate that you are just taper crimping a bit much. Back that taper off 1/4 turn and see how they look. A very slight bulge isn't a problem. Remember, the 9mm is a tapered case, so you'll see that sometimes.

Happy loading, and don't hesitate to ask questions.

I learned most of what I know from the guys on this site. I haven't bought centerfire factory ammo in nearly a decade now.

 

[Zendude]

Hi

So, I just finished reloading my first 7 rounds ever - obviously I am brand new to this. Using the Lee Classic Turret and Lee 9mm 4 die set. I am using Everglades plated RN 115 bullets. I am noticing 3 potential problems. Problem 1 is my OAL is not consistent. I want my length to be 1.140. 3 of them turned out that size and the others were as long as 1.146. Problem #2 is that after doing the crimp, there's a slight protrusion in the brass where the bullet is seated. Problem #3 is that it looks like there are slight differences in the seating depth of the primers. They are all lower than the edge. It just seems a few are slightly lower than others. So, any advise would be appreciated.

Not that it matters for these problems, but I am using 4.1g of Ram Zip.

Stefan

Welcome to the forum and to reloading! This is the best forum on the net to ask questions and also to read answers to questions from others. It sure has helped me when I started about 5 years ago and still does today.

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR

Like using check weights for scales, I recommend use of known standards/gages for calipers especially since caliper gears can wear and loose accuracy from use. Since measuring cylindrical objects could have different "feel" depending on the amount of pressure applied to caliper jaws, I prefer to use pin gages to check my calipers with my eyes closed so I can get more consistent feel/readings (as bullets and finished rounds are cylindrical) and improper use of calipers and worn calipers will result in inconsistent measurements.

You also want to use the same size pin gage as the items you are measuring since different parts of the caliper gears can wear at different spots. Since I mainly reload 9mm/40S&W/45ACP, I have .355"/.400"/.451" pin gages.

Pin gages can be quite affordable to have for each caliber you reload for. Here's Vermont Gage .355"+ pin gage for $4.61 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ks-for-digital-calibers.821135/#post-10545265

Lee Classic Turret and Lee 9mm 4 die set ... Everglades plated RN 115 ... 4.1g of Ram Zip.

Looks like you are referencing Ramshot (Now part of Hodgon) load data - https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr Berry's RN Zip (Diameter .356") COL 1.130" Start 4.1 gr (1009 fps) - Max 4.6 gr (1089 fps)

• 9mm 115 gr Rainier RN Zip (Diameter .355") COL 1.140" Start 4.3 gr (1016 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1113 fps)

Note that start/max powder charges for Berry's plated bullet is lower than Rainier plated bullet even though Berry's is loaded shorter and that's likely from larger sizing of .356".

So measure your Everglades plated RN and if it is sized smaller at .355", I would reference start/max charges for .355" sized Rainier load data of 4.3/4.8 gr.

Problem 1 is my OAL is not consistent. I want my length to be 1.140. 3 of them turned out that size and the others were as long as 1.146

As to your OAL variance, make sure you have large enough case mouth flare (So as to not cut into copper plating) to set the bullet base inside the flare and make sure you are not tilting the bullet during seating. Tilted bullets are expressed by one sided bulging of case neck and you should see even bulging around the case neck where bullet base is seated to - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bulges-on-9mm-case.848008/#post-11059827

Tilted bullets showing one-sided bulge (Winchester 115 gr FMJ)

Straight seated bullets showing even bulge all around the case neck

Lee bullet seating/taper crimp die uses stem/plug that contacts the RN bullet further down from the tip and you want to occasionally check/clean the dies for debri/build up.

Tilting of the bullet during seating is not the only source of OAL variance. Since the bullet seating stem/plug pushes on the side of the RN bullet, inconsistent nose shape can translate to OAL variance as well. But as other members posted, depending on the consistency of bullet nose profile and whether you are tilting the bullet during seating, OAL variance up to .005" is common, especially for new reloader.

If you want to reduce reloading variables, check out this step-by-step guide - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

Problem #2 is that after doing the crimp, there's a slight protrusion in the brass where the bullet is seated.

If you are using mixed range brass that's been reloaded multiple times, you will soon find that cases tend to get shorter as brass experiences repeated work hardening. And if you used longer resized case to adjust your bullet seat/crimp die, shorter cases will apply less taper crimp.

So measure some resized cases and use shorter case to adjust your die.

(A note on the 4th Factory Crimp Die - FCD is essentially a taper crimp die with a carbide sizer ring to post-size finished round that is out-of-round like one sided bulged case neck from tilting of bullet during seating, etc. Since you are new to reloading, I would suggest you first learn to properly seat and taper crimp with the 3rd die to see what you could be doing wrong as the FCD will "erase" any mistake you could be making. I use Dillon, Hornady, Lee, RCBS dies and my FCDs stay in the die box)

As to amount of taper crimp, you essentially want to just return the flare back flat on the bullet. Since case wall thickness averages .011" at case mouth, I determine the amount of taper crimp by adding .022" to the diameter of the bullet. So for .355" sized bullet, I use .377" taper crimp.

And for straight wall semi-auto cartridge that headspaces off case mouth, I want a nice 90 degree taper crimp at case mouth as shown in below picture of bullet loaded with Lee combo seat/taper crimp die (Notice the even bulge around the case neck showing bullet didn't tilt during seating)

Problem #3 is that it looks like there are slight differences in the seating depth of the primers. They are all lower than the edge. It just seems a few are slightly lower than others.

If you are using the turret press with auto index, fouling crud can build up at the bottom of the primer pocket and could prevent consistent seating of the primer. To inspect and clean primer pockets, you could resize/deprime cases separately but most of us don't do that as depriming action usually removes most of fouling crud from the primer pocket.

For match grade rounds, I would separately resize/deprime brass so I could inspect and clean primer pockets then hand prime but for general purpose range blasting/plinking ammo, I don't. My quality control check is to load finished rounds in a tray primer side up and run my finger tip over to ensure primers were loaded below flush.

Check out this post for properly seating primers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11386382

And follow up post with US Army Marksmanship Unit guideline for primer seating - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11403561

Proper seating of primers is a 2 step process and if you stop at Step 1 with anvil tip not pre-loaded/set against the priming compound, initial striker hit may not result in primer ignition rather seat the primer deeper, setting the anvil tip against the priming compound. If this is the case, second/third primer strike will ignite the primer.

Step 1 - The initial resistance you feel when seating primer is primer cup being pushed down the primer pocket. Depending on the primer pocket depth, seating primer cup flush may not set the anvil tip against the priming compound.

Step 2 - The secondary resistance you feel is primer anvil feet bottoming with primer pocket and sliding up inside the cup to pre-load/set against the priming compound (.004" below flush) and face of cup deforming (.008" below flush).

 

[Stefan A]

Thats a lot of info to take in and I thank all of you for that. Yes, it’s mixed brass. Fired once by me. I”ll look over this more carefully again tomorrow. Thanks Again.

 

[Mike 56]

Only load a few rounds to start with test them make sure feed and shoot you can save a lot of time pulling bullets. I load 9mm for my granddaughter her M&P is easy her Glocks are length sensitive the bullets OAL needs to be a little longer to feed right but still within specs.

 

[warnerwh]

Welcome to the club!

 

[Bartojc]

Welcome. I cannot add anything to what LiveLife posted. He's (as usual) right on the money. Take it in small doses. Sounds like you are doing well and taking it slow.
-Jeff

 

[lordpaxman]

Welcome to THR and your new addiction.
You’ve already gotten a lot of good advice and kudos for your 3 observations. It’s a good thing to be detail oriented while reloading. You should be good to go on testing your reloads, I too see those kind of variances with mine. Since you’re new to reloading, for your COL of 1.140”, did you measure and verify your gun(s) chamber for this COL? And, for your finished rounds, it sounds like the protrusion or bulge is indicating your have good neck tension, but it’s always a good thing to push the bullet into the reloading bench and re-measure just to make sure you don’t have any setback. Good luck and let us know how they work at the range.

 

[Walkalong]

OAL can easily vary .005/.006, a better fitting seater stem to bullet fit will help, but a .006 spread isn't enough to be concerned about.

A pic would help, but when crimping 9MM adjust the taper "crimp" to just remove the bell on the shortest cases, which will remove the bell on the longer ones (All we need to do), and give a hair of inward movement of the case as well. Too much can cause issues, bulging, etc. Or is it the bulge at the base of the bullet you are seeing (Nice pics of that by @LiveLife)? That bulge will depend on sizer tightness, expander diameter/depth, and bullet diameter. My tapered Lee carbide sizer does a beautiful job, my Redding leaves the big bulge as in the pics above, but both work well.

If primer depth varies a lot it makes me wonder if they are all seated deeply enough, which is bottomed out in the primer pocket, you may end up wanting to seat harder, adjust the seater plug etc depending on how you are priming. It's very hard to seat a primer too hard and very easy to seat one too light where it isn't bottomed out.



Welcome to THR

 

[Stefan A]

To answer the questions that have come up since my last post, no, I did not measure the chamber. Just going by what the manuals say. The bulge is just at the opening of the case. Only the depth that the bullet is seated. When I get home I’ll take a pic. I also plan on firing these rounds this afternoon - since no one has indicated that any of my problems are unsafe. I have to admit, I’m a bit worried. I have a glock 17 and 19. Also a sig 365. I guess I can’t assume that if it fires and feeds in one, it will work for the others. Do you think one of the glocks is a better first test? Someone mentioned above that they are more sensitive to OAL.

 

[LiveLife]

glock 17 and 19. Also a sig 365. I guess I can’t assume that if it fires and feeds in one, it will work for the others. Do you think one of the glocks is a better first test? Someone mentioned above that they are more sensitive to OAL.

"Someone" mentioning Glock barrels being more sensitive to OAL could be speaking about new Gen5 Glocks with "Marksman" barrel in some models for greater match grade accuracy that requires shorter OAL due to shorter leade - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...glock-handgun-see-below.847392/#post-11047664

Gen1 through Gen4 Glock 17/19 (And still most Gen5 Glocks without "Marksman" barrels) and many factory barrels will allow typical 115/124 gr FMJ/RN profile bullets loaded to 1.169" and longer. Here's a reference thread showing max/working OAL for various factory/aftermarket match barrels - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...let-max-working-oal-col-for-reference.848462/

Glocks are known for their rounded and smoother start of rifling with longer leade (Space bullet jumps from case neck to start of rifling) compared to more traditional squared off land/groove rifling.

Here are KKM (1:24 twist rate). Tactical Kinetics (1:10) and Lone Wolf (1:16) barrels showing square cut land/groove rifling from longer to shorter leade length before start of rifling - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...let-max-working-oal-col-for-reference.848462/

Compared to Glock barrel with 1:10 (1:9.84 actual) twist rate and rounded rifling and longer leade

Look at the comparison listing of different barrels with longer leade to shorter leade and how they affect working OAL for same jacketed/plated RN profile bullets:

Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine:

• Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Rainier 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
• Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
• Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
• X-Treme 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"

• Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek (SmallBall): 1.110"
• MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.169"
• PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Rainier 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
• RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
• Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.169"
• X-Treme 124 gr RN: 1.169"

Glock 22, Tactical Kinetics 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine:

• Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
• Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.135"
• Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.135"

• Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek (SmallBall): 1.050"
• MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.115"
  
• PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  
• RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.130"
• Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.165"

Glock 23, Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine:

• Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 115 gr RN: 1.165"
• PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.160"
• RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.130"
• Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
• Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.130"
• Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.125"

• Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
• Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
• HSM 124 gr RN: 1.155"
• MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek (SmallBall): 1.040"
• MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.105"
  
• PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.160"
• Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
  
• RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.120"
• Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.155"

 

[Bartojc]

if you have not done the plunk test with your particular firearm you should. To do that make sure the round "plunks" in the chamber and spins freely. Tip your barrel upside down and the round should fall out freely. If the rounds pass you should be fine and it will not matter which one you test first. You can get case gage checkers from Wilson and Lyman and others but your chamber is really the only gage that matters to you. If the "plunk" test is something you don't quite understand do a search here or I'm sure youtube will have examples.

-Jeff

 

[Todd NE WY]

If it's mixed brass, the OAL might be different, all shells are not created equal , your in the ballpark with your lengths.

@Average Joe I think this information is not correct and could further confuse a new reloader. Measuring OAL from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet makes case length immaterial. The OAL will remain consistent with varied case lengths, the degree to which the crimp is applied with vary. If the crimp is set for the longer cases there will be less crimp on the shorter cases and vice versa.

Todd

 

[LiveLife]

Measuring OAL from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet makes case length immaterial. The OAL will remain consistent with varied case lengths, the degree to which the crimp is applied with vary. If the crimp is set for the longer cases there will be less crimp on the shorter cases and vice versa.

This is a good point.

I do want to point out that most RN bullet seating stems/plugs do not push on the tip rather further down the ogive (nose profile) of the bullet so OAL can vary depending on the consistency of bullet nose construction and why FMJ tend to produce more consistent OAL compared to plated/coated RN.

And since resized case length can vary by headstamp and number of reloadings (brass work hardening), when adjusting dies and conducing "plunk" test for max OAL, you want to measure sample of your brass and use shorter cases because shorter cases will allow more nose tip to protrude above the case mouth and prevent not enough taper crimp (If longer case length was used to set the taper crimp, shorter cases may not return flare back flat on the bullet).

 

[murf]

@Stefan A, what reloading manual are you using?

murf

 

[Stefan A]

I am using Lee. But I also looked at the Ramshot website.

 

[lordpaxman]

I have to admit, I’m a bit worried. I have a glock 17 and 19. Also a sig 365.

I shot my first reloads with a bit of trepidation, it’s normal. Any of those guns should handle your rounds. There are threads dealing with how to check your chamber with a particular bullet to determine max and working COL. It should be done with any new bullet you’re reloading with, and the finished rounds should pass the plunk test. I’ve not loaded the exact bullet you have but my plated 115 RNs can be loaded longer than 1.140”. Keep in mind shortening the published COL will result in a higher pressure so you have to work up loads carefully. Good luck!

 

[Stefan A]

Ok - here are the results. All my rounds passed the plunk test in my Glock and Sig barrels. But the Sig felt perfect. Dropped in with a plunk, easily spun, and dropped right out when I turned the barrel over. The glock barrel plunked and spun, but didn't drop out when turning it upside down. So, I shot the rounds out if the Sig. Perfect ejection and perfect chambering. But it was very surprising - in a good way. These were a night and day difference from factory ammo. It sounded louder and the recoil was very brisk. The bullets seemed to hit my steel targets quicker and harder. The clink of the steel was louder. Very eye opening and a big smile on my face . That was fun. Time to make many more!! But I don't want to be hasty - after all, I still need to try it in the glocks and I want the cartridges to drop right out of the barrel. Thanks again for the advice.