Beginnings with 22 LR

[Bcwitt]

I use a non aggressive brush, like nylon, never more than a bronze brush. A few pulls w a bore snake dose very nicely. I might use a bit of oil, but usually not.

 

[doubleh]

Where is that dead horse emoji?

My procedure is to remove wax build up in the action when it gets really nasty. Harbor Freigh sells an inexpensive set of four that are durable and work well for every little nook and cranny. I wipe the guns down with Pledge furniture polish after use. It removes anything on the outside and prevents rust. The wax on 22 bullets protects the bore better than anything you can apply so don't worry about it. I have seen posts about lead fouling in 22 rimfire guns. I started shooting 22's when a small kid and have never had or known anyone to have that problem. That is around 70 years of experience for me. It may happen but hasn't to me.

 

[d2wing]

You haven't seen a carbon ring with your bore scope? I am in the minority then. Mystery to me. I just know what works for me.

 

[jmr40]

I wipe down the exterior and clean crud from inside the action after every range trip. Cleaning the barrel should be done very rarely, especially with a 22. Unless it has gotten wet from hunting in the rain. Even my centerfire rifles don't get the barrel cleaned very often. Once a year or about every 200 rounds whichever comes 1st. A 22 barrel can go YEARS before it needs to be cleaned. And if you aren't very careful you can do more damage cleaning it than just leaving it alone

Any rifle shoots more accurately with a fouled barrel. Clean it and you see accuracy and POI change until you shoot it for a while. It may only need 3-5 shots to get accuracy back, or 20 shots. If you clean the barrel after every range trip, you'll have to shoot it for a while before you can trust the zero and get optimum accuracy the next time out.

I won't hunt with one of my big game rifles after cleaning the barrel until I can get it to the range to foul the barrel and affirm zero. There is no telling where the 1st shot from a clean barrel is going to hit.

Nice choice in a 22. There may be more accurate 22's, but I've not shot one yet and don't think my skills are good enough to matter anyway. 5 shots @ 50 yards with mine.

 

[Tentwing]

………… 22 rimfire … well about every 5000 rounds or so , just because I start feeling a little lazy …… as a child raised by a WW2 Marine ………

 

[Dr T]

I think that you are seriously overthinking it. Until you reach competition, just go shoot the thing and clean it when the chamber gets sticky.

 

[Skylerbone]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223110913/http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

If you choose to clean, I always try to post the above. As for my imperfect method, Butch’s Bore Shine with a 1-piece SS rod fitted with a pierce jag to wet the bore, followed by a nylon brush, followed by dry patches until clean. Then a single CLP pass with the same pierce jag.

The bolt gets CLP and a toothbrush followed by oil, grease for the lugs. Exterior CLP.

I’m skeptical that someone scoping a bore on another’s used rifle could determine the specific cause of damage.

 

[I6turbo]

The biggest thing is to prevent a carbon ring, also to be consistent. Accuracy guys clean. Plinkers don't. Flyers are the result of a few things, one being a carbon ring. Some claim wax buildup helps. I say it just is another variable and is inconsistent. Clean is consistent.

That’s my experience, too. The first thing that happens that causes a NEED for cleaning a 22LR is the buildup of a carbon ring at the end of the chamber that will deteriorate accuracy. Some guns probably aren’t accurate enough to even notice when this happens, but I’m not interested in owning those unless it’s for sentimental reasons.

 

[nettlle]

I use these brushes on all my rifled barrels along with Shooters Choice MC #7. Only takes a few swipes. I tried nylon brushes once. To me the nylon brushes are a placebo. Also use the Parker-Hale jags.

BROWNELLS DOUBLE-TUFF™ BORE BRUSH | Brownells

Check out the BROWNELLS available Online at Brownells Today and many more Gun Cleaning Brushes products are available in our Tools & Cleaning Department.

www.brownells.com

 

[Slamfire]

You haven't seen a carbon ring with your bore scope? I am in the minority then. Mystery to me. I just know what works for me.

Talked again to a gunsmith who works on match rimfires. He had an Anschutz (I think) that had a carbon ring in the chamber, may have been up the barrel. He said something about a four inch carbon ring. The muzzle end of the rifling was heavily coated with rust, and it went down the tube. Externally, the barrel had rust from extended storage in a rifle case. This was a State Smallbore Rifle Team rifle, and who ever had it, had not cleaned it at all. The gunsmith said that barrel was toast. And that the shooter who had the rifle, needed a talking to.

The gunsmith is also a Master class smallbore prone competitor, and he always cleans his rifle after each match.

 

[nettlle]

22's are a little different to me than my other rifles and pistols. Right or wrong they are something I like to pick up with a few boxes of shells, take to my outdoor range, shoot a few hundred rounds, wipe them down, and be done with them. Stress reliever shooting on my part so to speak. I have never ruined a barrel or ever had a 22 loose accuracy due to my cleaning method or lack of. But I am not a Master Class shooter either. I have had and do have some very nice 22's.

 

[sparkyv]

I didn't know Hornady made 22LR ammunition.

I shooted the last week my first 20 rounds with hornady ammo, really impressed me for his accuracy with 16”.
I want to search better groups with other brands

 

[Riomouse911]

I didn't know Hornady made 22LR ammunition.

Hornady Varmit Express, 22LR, 40GR - 100Rnds

Hornady Varmit Express, 22LR, 40GR - 100Rnds The Hornady Rimfire line of ammunition offers varmit hunters high speed, accurate rimfire cartridges. These loads deliver tack-driving accuracy and dramatic expansion on impact. PRODUCT FEATURES: 40gr Copper Plated HP1160 fps100 Rounds in...

www.theoutdoorsupplystore.com

Not the most common ammo, but it’s out there.

Stay safe.

 

[CraigC]

The gunsmith is also a Master class smallbore prone competitor, and he always cleans his rifle after each match.

Even the Anschutz manual says not to do that.

The rifle didn't rust because it wasn't cleaned. It rusted because it was stored in a humid environment. People love to blame fouling, leather holsters and cases for rust but it's always moisture.

 

[.308 Norma]

This thread reminded me that I have to wash our truck this afternoon. You see, my wife and I finally got out and shot some ground squirrels on our friend's ranch a couple of days ago, and I always wash our truck after using it - just like I always clean our .22s after using them.
BTW, we only shot about 20, maybe 25 ground squirrels in the 3-hours we were out. In the spring, we usually shoot about a hundred of them in that much time. However, the reason my wife and I shot so few ground squirrels the other day sure wasn't because we were missing them because I hadn't cleaned our .22s since last spring's ground squirrel extermination hunts. It was simply because there aren't many ground squirrels up out of their tunnels and dens so far this spring.

 

[doubleh]

I have never run across any Hornady 22LR ammo. Of course this is the last place in the US for things to arrive at it seems. I have my dad's Remington model 12 rifle. I don't know it's exact age but he had it every since I can remember. Carbon ring or no it still hits where aimed. As much as I shot if it has one it should extend all the way to the muzzle. He bought a slightly used High Standard HDM pistol In 1949 if I remember correctly and it came in a nice military style holster that it has spent it's life in without any rust. Farmers of which he was one seldom shot their guns except for food or pest control. I have shot his much more than he ever did.

 

[Slamfire]

Even the Anschutz manual says not to do that.

The rifle didn't rust because it wasn't cleaned. It rusted because it was stored in a humid environment. People love to blame fouling, leather holsters and cases for rust but it's always moisture.

Powder fouling attracts humidity. Humidity and powder fouling cause rust. I have seen enough rusted vintage (post WW2) 22lr barrels that I am not going to put a dirty .22lr away.

If you live in Phoenix, where it is bone dry, your experiences are going to be widely different from someone who lives in a humid area.

This is the Ben Avery shooting area, north of Phoenix, a day or two after a rain storm.

if it rains in the desert, the plants go into a desert bloom. These plants have been lying dormant for so long, that if it rains, they immediately blossom. The pollen was so high, I had real allergy problems. Beautiful as it is, it was hell on me. The bloom is quick, and then it is over, till the next time, which is months, maybe years.

This is my Dad's sail boat.

Live close to seawater, or have something in seawater, you will believe in corrosion! Everything falls apart. External fixtures, with screws in them, when I attempted to loosen the screw caused the heads to brake off. The shaft in the wood had rusted. Vise grips are my friends. Insulation on electrical lines deteriorate and you have to change them before they arc. Electrical switches frequently shorted out. Even Dad's hand held calculators stopped working, because the circuit boards corroded, and they were in the house. Bicycle chains would rust in place. Steel had to be put away clean, oiled, and periodically inspected, because it would rust.

If you are looking for rust preventatives or rust protecting solutions, go to the Marine Store. Everything falls apart on boats and ships.

Now I grew up in this environment, and that's where I learned to maintain things. Your experience may be different. And, it's your rifle, but don't expect me to adopt your maintenance philosophy, nor believe in your justifications.

Next 22lr match, F Class, or 3P, or Smallbore Prone, go tell the shooters there Anschutz's advice. I am sure they will still be cleaning their barrels after the buzzing noise goes away.

 

[CraigC]

Powder fouling attracts humidity. Humidity and powder fouling cause rust. I have seen enough rusted vintage (post WW2) 22lr barrels that I am not going to put a dirty .22lr away.

And that humidity is an issue whether the gun is dirty or clean.

I rarely clean my guns and haven't touched a .22LR bore in 25yrs. I don't have any rusted guns, yet I spent the first 32yrs of my life in Florida and the last 18 in Tennessee.

Again what benchrest shooters do and what's applicable to the rest of the shooting world isn't necessarily the same thing.

Have you tried it both ways? The "always clean" crowd never do. I have. Did I come up with this on my own? Nope. I listened to people who knew a lot more than I did. Some of whom were gunsmiths. Unless you're shooting blackpowder or corrosive primers, guns don't rust without moisture.

 

[22250Rem]

I clean my guns after firing them. Just an old habit my Uncle Sam drilled into me. However; I haven't had a bore brush in a 22 rimfire barrel in years. I just run a few wet patches with Hoppe's #9 through the bore and let it sit horizontally for hours, sometimes overnight. Then dry patch it all out, and perhaps repeat if it seems worse than what I usually see.

 

[Slamfire]

Have you tried it both ways? The "always clean" crowd never do. I have. Did I come up with this on my own? Nope. I listened to people who knew a lot more than I did. Some of whom were gunsmiths. Unless you're shooting blackpowder or corrosive primers, guns don't rust without moisture.

Well then, I suppose we are going to disagree.

 

[Skylerbone]

There’s no harm in disagreeing on the matter, but there are reasons beyond rust. Reliability should be on everyone’s mind IMO. Sure it’s just a .22 but for me it’s a day in the woods that I’ve been anticipating which is one of just a handful each year. Why ruin it with an equipment failure?

As for accuracy I would challenge the notion that silica, carbon, wax, and lead fouling improves things. And in the case of rust, well moisture is present each time a rifle is fired and so it stands to reason that some of that moisture will be trapped. If you never clean you’ll never know, and if you do clean you should of course protect all surfaces after with a bit of oil, same as any mechanical device.

This is what lead looks like when it’s built up enough to fill the barrel’s grooves.


From a 10/22, progressive patches until clean.


Rust free yes, but not damage free. Debris did not enhance performance.


Yes I bought this bike for $40, and someone bought it from me for $200. Why the original owner spent $500 to mistreat it is anyone’s guess.

 

[LiveLife]

Again what benchrest shooters do and what's applicable to the rest of the shooting world isn't necessarily the same thing.

Have you tried it both ways? The "always clean" crowd never do. I have. Did I come up with this on my own? Nope. I listened to people who knew a lot more than I did.

And that's why we do "myth busting/confirming" ... To get to the truth with measurable and repeatable factual data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...h+busting+confirming&c[users]=LiveLife&o=date

For the past several years, I have embarked on 45,000+ round 22LR comparison testing (Now grown to 47 brands/weights/lots) to see which ammunition produced the smallest average groups at 50/100 yards. And for full transparency, 11,000+ rounds were shot capturing every 5/10 shot groups from new 10/22 Collector #3, T/CR22 and with KSA bull barrel maintaining round count. (So now I know things like factory 10/22 7.5 lb trigger will go down to 4.5 lbs after 4000 rounds) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12454264

After moderator @Walkalong mentioned about Schuemann barrel's recommendation to not over clean barrel with bore brushes, I stopped bore brushing my rifle barrel rather wet mop and dry patch and bore brushed when accuracy deteriorated. During 10,000+ round testing of 22LR comparison, 10/22 and T/CR22 barrels were bore brushed every 2000 rounds (Wet mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched with Viva Cloth paper towel after range sessions) and chamber/rifling remained pristine without leading - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12175261

And what did we find after myth busting 22LR clean vs dirty barrel testing on accuracy? - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...k-dirty-vs-clean-22lr-barrel-accuracy.897763/

We found it took several boxes of 22LR ammunition to restore accuracy of producing consistent groups after barrel cleaning. (Flyers and group scatter we see after cleaning barrels could be "airgun dieseling" from residual solvent while we pull our hair out thinking it's loose scope mount/rings, etc. So patch that bore well until completely dry)

And when should you clean the barrel? When the barrel stops producing consistent groups and group size increases.

How did I clean the barrels? Barrels were mopped with Hoppes #9 until dripping wet, soaked with ends plugged for 10 minutes and mopped again then soaked again for 10 more minutes before brushed twice with copper bore brush at end of cable (Brushed from chamber to muzzle) and dry patched with Viva Cloth paper towel (T/CR22 receiver came with 1/4" hole in the back of receiver and I have drilled 1/4" hole in the back of 10/22 receiver to use cleaning rod from chamber to muzzle).

Ruger 10/22 18.5" barrel after 4600 rounds and two cleanings. Clean chamber and rifling without leading.

And produced 1/2"-3/4" groups with CCI SV at 50 yards and 3/4"-1" groups with Aguila 40 gr Lead/CPRN at 6250 round count and three bore brushings (Done every 2000 round count) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12304052

 

[Slamfire]

We found it took several boxes of 22LR ammunition to restore accuracy of producing consistent groups after barrel cleaning. (Flyers and group scatter we see after cleaning barrels could be "airgun dieseling" from residual solvent while we pull our hair out thinking it's loose scope mount/rings, etc. So patch that bore well until completely dry)

I don't know any competition shooters needing boxes of ammunition to get their clean bore to settle.

I will put two, sometimes three rounds in the berm to "settle" my clean and oiled barrel. I have found the first shot from a clean and oiled barrel is going to be out, the second is just to make me comfortable, and if I do a third, it is probably un necessary.

This is the first target of the day at a National Match. No one has the time to shoot several boxes to settle their barrel, and no one does.

These are two Smallbore Prone National Champion's targets, same relay. I know they are match one, don't know if they were stage 1 or two. Both of these shooters clean their barrels before leaving the range, so these barrels were fired clean. No idea if either leaves oil in the barrel. Surely, none of them shoot several boxes of ammunition during the match, to settle their barrel, before the first sighting shots.

No one shoots CCI SV in a precision 22lr match, it is not accurate or consistent. Groups like this are a fluke, when the round count goes up, cheap ammunition throws shots and has low velocity shots. This was just practice, to see how the stuff shot in a rifle.

Good match ammunition will hold the X ring, and the drop outs will be in the ten ring, not the seven ring.

This shooter gave up shooting TAC when he had this drop out

He went to Eley Black box, and shot much rounder, and tighter groups. (F Class prone)

If you really want to prove accuracy, good match ammunition, and a small target will help make your case.

Shoot on the 50 meter target. This target is what the F class guys shoot on, I just shot this prone in practice, the groups mean nothing.

The X ring is about 22 caliber. This weekend, Danny Boy, a shooting bud of mine, was shooting 199's and 200's on the 50 meter target. Danny Boy is an F Class National Tactical champ (308 Win), a very accomplished shooter. He cleans his barrel at the end of every match, and he does not shoot boxes of ammunition to settle the barrel.

If your barrel takes an excessive number of shots to settle in, it is time for a new 22lr barrel. Good shooters pay attention to their scores, their X counts, and if both drop, they try new ammunition, play with the scope, twiddle with the bedding, and if that does not work, they buy new barrels. One State Champ, his barrel had 60,000 rounds and it was puking the occasional shot. A new barrel fixed that.

 

[LiveLife]

If you really want to prove accuracy, good match ammunition

You should know by now that my work on THR mostly supports "average" shooters who can afford/willing to spend least amount of money for 22LR hence my "Affordable 22LR (Lowest shipped pricing)" thread and not "competition shooters" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-shipped-pricing.902560/page-16#post-12877535

And getting 1/2"-3/4" 50 yard groups with CCI SV and 3/4"-1" groups with Aguila 40 gr Lead/CPRN (Which BTW is one of cheapest ammunition right now) is plenty accurate for me and likely for many THR members. (Oh, and that's with factory 10/22 18.5" taper barrel and not $300+ match barrel)

If your barrel takes an excessive number of shots to settle in, it is time for a new 22lr barrel.

I agree. Factory 10/22 18.5" barrel was retired after 6500 rounds and entire Collector #3 package minus receiver was sent to member irishlad. I am considering either E.R. Shaw or Green Mountain bull barrel as replacement but currently working with 16.5" KSA bull barrel bought for T/CR22 (I am debating on barrel length of 16.5" vs 18" vs 20").

I don't know any competition shooters needing boxes of ammunition to get their clean bore to settle.

No disagreement from me.

I am not a 22LR competition shooter, just a random 22LR plinker posting on THR (But I did shoot over a million pistol/rifle rounds past 30 years and shot USPSA for years).

What I did for the "myth busting" thread was extremes of "real world" testing where post barrel cleaning was kept wet to dry.

And for wet "clean" barrels, it did take extra box or two to produce more consistent groups using Aguila 40 gr CPRN out of factory 10/22 18.5" barrel with 3500 round count (I did repeat the wet "clean" test at 6500 round count with similar results) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lector-3-break-in.859106/page-3#post-12118330

With dry "clean" barrels, it took much less rounds and hence why I suggested to patch the bore til dry after cleaning on post #47.

We found it took several boxes of 22LR ammunition to restore accuracy of producing consistent groups after barrel cleaning. (Flyers and group scatter we see after cleaning barrels could be "airgun dieseling" from residual solvent while we pull our hair out thinking it's loose scope mount/rings, etc. So patch that bore well until completely dry)

 

[CraigC]

As I said, benchresters are chasing thousandths. They're also cutting their barrels so the bullet exits at a particular point in its rotation. This is an entirely different game. If you're going to get out and walk a couple miles for fitness, do you need to take on a marathon runner's diet? Probably not.

Context is everything. This is not a discussion of benchrest shooting. If it were, I wouldn't be here. It is a thread begun by a first time .22LR rifle buyer. The "clean every time" crowd loves to play the benchrest card to justify their regimen and win the argument, without any regard whatsoever for the context of the discussion.

For context, at last count, I had over 56,000rds of .22LR ammo on hand. I have 56 rimfire guns and I shoot them, a lot. However, probably less than 1000rds of that would be considered "match" ammo. The rest of it is for plinking, pest control or hunting. I don't shoot paper for fun. I shoot paper for testing. I rarely measure my groups with a caliper. I measure them with a ruler. I may test a rifle with expensive Lapua ammo but it's only for my own curiosity. Shooting paper is boring as hell and I don't chase group sizes. Shooting a passel of squirrels is much more interesting than groups like this, shot with Lapua out of a Kidd barreled 10/22. It's five shots in under a quarter inch. How much under, I don't care. If they "open" up to a quarter inch, I still don't care. Rest assured, the rifle has not been cleaned since this group was shot and if I took it to the bench this afternoon, it would still yield a similar result.

Most shooters aren't cleaning every time because they're shooting benchrest. They're cleaning every time because they think that's what they're supposed to do or somebody told them they should. I did too, 35yrs ago.