I've read the specs. It does look fat ,but it's not particularly heavy (6.8lbs unloaded is the listed weight). That actually comes in below the FN SCAR (7.3lbs for the standard version with a barrel the same length as the ARX -- the shorty is 6.7), and the Bushmaster ACR (7.9lbs for the lightest version). Unfortunately, the days of feather light (5-6lb) rifles and carbines like the old pencil-barrel ARs and AR-180s are gone. Once you start sticking all these rails on these guns, the weight goes up, and the gun gets to looking fat. It goes up even more when you start hanging optics and other accessories on those rails.I don't see any advantage with it over a M-4 style AR. Looks fat and heavy. I'll stick with my 16 inch AR carbine.
Jim
And the Tavor, Aug, MR556, SCAR, ACR, XM8, and M4 aren't? Aren't we being just a tad unfair?Starship Troopers
And the Tavor, Aug, MR556, SCAR, ACR, XM8, and M4 aren't? Aren't we being just a tad unfair?
And had an important role in Somalia during our "Blackhawk Down" incident. (Though not the one you'd hoped they'd have had.)They may not be an Axis power anymore (who said they are?) but Italy did have combat troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. ..
Was just about to say the same thing. The Tavor appears to be more in the line of a step forward in technology and position. While I love the look of the Beretta, it looks just like a re-skinned AR-15 or ACR. For $2K, I'll pass.The Tavor is about $2,000
Subjective, all of them. You do know Benelli shotguns are fielded by the US, right?
You trust our testing a little more? You realize our testing gave us the M60 right? Hardly the finest of GMPGs. Our testing also gave us the M14 which, while a very good weapon, was not the best choice either, and moreover, the tests were rigged (according the army I.G.). Other US military tests (admittedly not of weapons, but still, U.S. military tests) gave us that godawful abortion that is the army's Universal Camouflage Pattern -- which is inexplicable, because the UCP pattern tested significantly worse than almost all the other patterns.Subjective, all of them. You do know Benelli shotguns are fielded by the US, right?
Until I see reviews, field testing, hell I'd like to see it torture tested, I'm not buying it.
I'm sure Italy tests their stuff, but I trust our testing just a lil more.
So, until then...it sucks. Prove me wrong, Italy or Mexicali-whatever, and I may consider it. But not for $2000
What do you like most about the Tavor vs the Beretta (or others)? Is the bullpup configuration the big draw, or other factors, too?The Tavor appears to be more in the line of a step forward in technology and position.
Not to mention the (now) beloved M1 Garand over the (possibly, but we'll never know, now) superior Johnson rifle or (even more unknown, but frontrunner) Pedersen Rifle. Not to mention the brilliant politically influenced testing which cost history the DWM Luger in 45ACP :banghead:Our testing also gave us the M14 which, while a very good weapon, was not the best choice either, and moreover, the tests were rigged (according the army I.G.).
Don't be obtuse. I'm not saying the testing our military has done over the years has been uniformly bad. It hasn't, of course; it's resulted in the adoption of some world-beating designs. But it's also rejected some designs that were better than what got accepted (e.g. the AR10 rejected in favor of the M14). And other weapons, like the FN FAL (which also got rejected in favor of the M14), were also outstanding designs, despite not being accepted for U.S. service.Not to mention the (now) beloved M1 Garand over the (possibly, but we'll never know, now) superior Johnson rifle or (even more unknown, but frontrunner) Pedersen Rifle. Not to mention the brilliant politically influenced testing which cost history the DWM Luger in 45ACP
Exactly; you win some, you lose some, and the military brass making the reqs isn't infallible. They have been instrumental in convincing companies to take chances on new designs like those I mentioned. My point is that some bone-headed choices have definitely been made by the process, so its seal of approval/disapproval isn't, in and of itself, as reliable an indicator of "best-ness" as many would like to think. It merely means the brass thought the platform the best idea at the time.I'm not saying the testing our military has done over the years has been uniformly bad
LMFAO.....Subjective, all of them. You do know Benelli shotguns are fielded by the US, right?
Until I see reviews, field testing, hell I'd like to see it torture tested, I'm not buying it.
I'm sure Italy tests their stuff, but I trust our testing just a lil more.
So, until then...it sucks. Prove me wrong, Italy or Mexicali-whatever, and I may consider it. But not for $2000.