Beretta M9 Service Pistol: Positive “Hatchet-job”?

[Redhat]

The M9 is a good pistol to be sure, but it's worth mentioning that the control Colt was probably produced in the '40's. Have you ever read the testing that was done when the 1911 was selected for the military?

http://http://www.sightm1911.com/

Some interesting reading.

 

[briansp82593]

i havent shot a single 1911 that hadnt jammed, kimber colt para and springer, my beretta, and my friends have never jammed ever, personally if it came down to it i would take my beretta over my glock but thats my opinion, there is nothing wrong with beretta... oooh the slides cracked... in the beginning yeah and you think nothing has broke on 1911's? there have been more parts broke on a 1911 probably more than any pistol. there is no perfect gun, never will be as much as you dont want to think it beretta is still better than the 1911... caliber? no, thats why mine is a 40

 

[Redhat]

Wow Brian!

Don't touch my guns! they've been running perfectly for 10 years. All I had to do was change out the recoil springs when they were worn out.

Every 1911 you've ever shot had problems???

 

[briansp82593]

none of which were mine, some were brand new some were old it was always a jam never a fte

 

[Redhat]

If I may ask...

Do you or how long have you carried the Beretta?

 

[doubleg]

The beretta is really not that bad of a gun. I'd choose a 1911 over it anyday but its still a weapon I would feel safe with. I give it a good 20 years before the military submits to the poly gun craze.

 

[doubleg]

"i havent shot a single 1911 that hadnt jammed, kimber colt para and springer, my beretta, and my friends have never jammed ever, personally if it came down to it i would take my beretta over my glock but thats my opinion, there is nothing wrong with beretta... oooh the slides cracked... in the beginning yeah and you think nothing has broke on 1911's? there have been more parts broke on a 1911 probably more than any pistol. there is no perfect gun, never will be as much as you dont want to think it beretta is still better than the 1911... caliber? no, thats why mine is a 40"

Where are these terrible 1911s being made? I have yet to find one.

 

[briansp82593]

never military, i dont carry, but ive never had a jam with mine, broken part, or any malfunction im probably well past 4500 rounds with nothing but a brush down the bore and a bit of rem oil and it seems to eat just about anything, only thing i havent tried was ranger yet.. its expensive around here

 

[briansp82593]

Where are these terrible 1911s being made? I have yet to find one.

take a trip to MO and i will show you a pile! they dont jam just when i have them either so i crossed that out

 

[doubleg]

Man I wish I had a pile of $600+ guns, even if they jammed. Wich i'm sure could be cured by a new mag and an extracter check.

 

[ugaarguy]

Not a terrible weapon at all! The Beretta was the first of the real ultra-reliable autoloaders, period. Their performance in the military trials was stellar! The guns just wouldn't jam, and that was unprecedented. Even the venerable Colt .45 choked enough to be a miserable failure. The 1911 design was great in its day, but it can't compete against modern designs. (Yet it is still one of the most expensive...don't get me started.)

Confederate those were old 1911s with even the frames worn well beyond their service life competing against factory new pistols if memory serves. The JSSAP trials didn't prove squat about 1911s.

 

[otomik]

Confederate those were old 1911s with even the frames worn well beyond their service life competing against factory new pistols if memory serves. The JSSAP trials didn't prove squat about 1911s.

From what you just said it sounds like it proved something about the 1911s they had in stock. They weren't about to get more 1911s so the test was valid for their purposes.

I'm a little lost here. Since when is the handgun the main battle implement for the military? What's the designation of the M9 Battalion?

is the m1 tank the main battle implement for the military? f-16 fighter? m-16a2 rifle? every weapon they have is expected to serve it's purpose well but each is just one among many.

 

[4fingermick]

Confederate, I rmember reading the reports of the test and I thought tha ammo fired was what you quoted and multiplied by a factor of ten. The 1911 did absymally and from memory the staked fron sight fell off early in the peace.

The 92 was clearly the winner by a big margin.

I have two autos, a 92FS and a 1911.

Both nice guns. 1911s seem to need money spent on them to get them up to speed from my experience, whereas most others seem good to go straight out of the box.

 

[mrcpu]

Man, I had a chance to really take advantage of someone over an M9 the other day, but I couldn't get past the uggo factor.

SOme guy bought it at the gun store I frequent, paid like 600 for it. (He had the receipt there from a few days prior), had some kind of emergency and wanted to sell it back.

The pawn shop offered him 280, I was going to go 350. all FTF. But conscience got the best of me, so I finally let him have it back...

Anyway, I'm probably going to regret not getting it, since I took that money and am going to put it towards a Taurus 24/7 Pro instead... Or an XD. Or an M&P. Or maybe ammo.

 

[pdowg881]

so how much does a 92fs generally go for vs a govt 1911(or the model that the military would use?) Doesn't price have a lot to do with the small arms the military selects?

 

[varoadking]

Like many of us that have a military background, whether in Special Forces or otherwise

Just curious, Magyar...what is the significance of Special Forces being shown in italics in your post?

He’s "whiner" from the 80’s when the Beretta was picked over others and eliminating the 1911 as our short-arm of the future.

I never heard the term "short-arm" before...I've always referred to pistols as sidearms, myself...

 

[1911 guy]

Sheesh.

First off, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table and call BS on anyone who says that EVERY 1911 they've fired has been a POS. You've either not fired many (or any), have an axe to grind, and either way are misrepresenting your experience. Failure rate is no more than any other decent manufactured pistol.

oooh the slides cracked...
And they injured people, killed at least one sailor that I know of and the manufactured refused to admit there was a problem. Barrels and other items are considered consumeable items on these handguns. There are NO items listed as consumeable on the 1911.


The testing was done with the sole purpose of finding a 9mm handgun. The military had enough .45's to last until Judgement Day, some are still in service today. Not new ones, either. There was no new 1911 pattern introduced for testing because they didn't want one. Bean counters decided we'd go to a 9mm because "everybody else is doing it". Sounds like a gradeschool playground excuse.

The Beretta was the first of the real ultra-reliable autoloaders, period.

Eh, I'll disagree there. For small caliber, U.S. made, I'll go along. But once you throw the larger calibers in and include european manufacture, there have been reliable autopistols for over fifty years.

Like I said, it's not bad, I used both the M-9 and the 1911 while in the service. I did prefer the way a 1911 fits my hands, but as far as reliability and ease of use, they're on equal ground.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Just curious, Magyar...what is the significance of Special Forces being shown in italics in your post?

Many magazine writers, in order to give some credence or authoritativeness to their subject, will inject the gun training-schools they have attended (paid for by their employer, no doubt), milt. exp; in this case L. Vickers mentioned his Spec. Force background.
Do you have an interest in my military background or just me?
BTW, this happens with some regularity on the forum; name-dropping GunSite, Thunder Ranch, etc; whether they attended or not is really a mute point since no one knows if it BS and so-what! Hell, one poster in order to refute one of my arguments showed a video of him firing "Bill's Drill"; it was hilarious.....
As far as "short-arm", this connotation has multiple meanings in the true & slang sense...I use this term amongst my friends and is accepted. Sidearm sounds kind of "prissy & sterile" to me....

 

[varoadking]

Do you have an interest in my military background or just me?

Neither. I had an interest in the significance of "Special Forces" having been in italics in your post. Thank you for the explanation.

As far as "short-arm", this connotation has multiple meanings in the true & slang sense...I use this term amongst my friends and is accepted. Sidearm sounds kind of "prissy & sterile" to me....

Whatever, dood...

 

[ID_shooting]

Back when I was an armorer in the BRO I had (IIRC) 50 M9's in my arms room. They were fired twice a year for qual while they were in my charge. All of them were Desert Storm vets and had very little finish left on them. The mags were whipped. I took over the arms room from a Corporal that has serious short-timer issues. Needles to say, none of the weapons in my arms room were in great condition. Not having a bunch of M9 expirience at the time, I begged the MP company's Armorer to give me hand squaring them away.

we got a duece and took 10 troops, all the M9's and a BUNCH of ammo to the range for a day. The first thing we did was clean and inspect. All passed, we then shot no less than 500 rounds out of each of them. Not one stoppage of anykind. Every one had a real great time. The only action item I came out with was to set them up 5 at a time to go to Depot for refinishing.

I bought a 92FS at my first chance and have never regretted it.

 

[Redhat]

Fellas,

The M9 is a good pistol. I've carried one on duty since '92 and never had a problem with it...ever.

Some folks complainabout the slide mounted decocker...not a problem, learn to use it.

Locking blocks crack...inspect them everytime you clean the weapons as you should all parts.

Fails to lock...most times that is because you need a new recoil spring. Nothing new here...take care of it and it'll work.

Those that have lot's of experience with the Beretta know it needs parts replaced now and then and it has it's quirks just like any gun. To think different is just plain phooey!

I'm not a big fan of the DA/SA trigger, especially when it can be up to 16.5 lbs and still be in spec, but it can be conquered with dry fire practice.

Having said all that. You guys who are bashing the 1911A1 as "unreliable" during it's military service need to remember those guns were built in the '40's and the frames were pretty shot by the '80's. The 1911A1 established a reputation as a fine combat handgun throughout military acceptance testing, WW's I and II, Korea, and Vietnam.

The M9's in service now are being switched out due to the same issues. The Beretta's a good gun but to say the 1911A1 wasn't just isn't fact based. Mr. Browning knew what he was doing when he designed it. These days too many like to "improve" on his design by tightenng this, changing the angle on that and the results can be somewhat dissappointing.

Think about, he designed the M2 .50 cal MG around 1898 and it's still in service!

 

[shaggycat]

The clear winner was the Beretta 92, which malfunctioned once in an average of 1,290 rounds if memory serves. The next was the Smith 459, which malfunctioned once in an average of 952; then the others fell drastically. The Colts scraped the bottom of the barrel.

Actually, I believe only the P226 and the 92F successfully completed the trials, with the 92F winning the contract because of a cheaper sticker price.

The 92F was far from the "clear winner." The P226 did quite well.

 

[Redhat]

Shaggy,

Glad someone finally mentioned that.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Actually, I believe only the P226 and the 92F successfully completed the trials, with the 92F winning the contract because of a cheaper sticker price.

That's what happened....Also, politically; our .45 was never in serious contention due to our committments with our allies and the 9mm....

 

[doubleg]

Its amazing, that the only people I have ever met that bash 1911's are internet commando's. There all great pistols people need to stop making crap up. I have yet to hear or read about the 1911 ever failing in battle.