The .45 makes a comeback during the war on terrorism

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The .45 makes a comeback during the war on terrorism

Christopher Holton, WorldTechTribune.com
WORLD TECH TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, April 5, 2004

In 1911 the U.S. military adopted a new sidearm: John Browning’s venerable .45 caliber automatic pistol. That pistol served with distinction as our armed forces’ standard sidearm into the 1980s, when it was officially replaced by the Beretta M9 9mm automatic pistol. In recent years, however, the 1911 Model .45, in a more modern guise, has been enjoying a renaissance of sorts.

At the time of the M9’s adoption, it was regarded as a more modern design and thus a suitable replacement for the tried and true .45, many examples of which were very elderly and worn out, giving it an undeserved reputation for unreliability.
The .45 never found much acceptance in law enforcement circles over the course of the 20th century. There were a variety of reasons for this, almost none of them legitimate:

Most law enforcement agencies saw the 1911 Model’s single action design as unsafe, a false assumption usually borne of ignorance. The fact is, the “old†single action design has several safety advantages over the more “modern†double action designs that have emerged over the past few decades.

Many leaders within the law enforcement community view the 1911 Model .45 as difficult to learn to shoot and master. Under budgetary restraints, some law enforcement agencies have been forced to cut corners on firearms training. It is cheaper and quicker to teach a trainee to just “point and squeeze†with a 9mm double action with a high magazine capacity.

In recent years, however, the .45 has been making a comeback, thanks in large part to the revolutionary efforts of a company named Kimber.

Since 1999, Kimber .45s have been unofficially and officially adopted by military and law enforcement units at the front of the war on terrorism:

Throughout the U.S. military's special operations community (USSOCOM), literally the "tip of the spear" in the war on terrorism, Kimber .45s are seeing increasing use as the severe limitations of the so-called modern M9 have become apparent. The M9 was a good concept, but in practice it has proven to be less durable in operational use than was hoped. More to the point, as .45 users have known for several decades, the 9mm cartridge is downright anemic in terms of stopping power. Special operations forces must have a sidearm that is completely reliable under severe conditions: the proven 1911 design has never been surpassed in terms of reliability or durability. Special operators also need a weapon with stopping power. The .45 automatic is unquestionably equal to or better than any other widely used automatic pistol cartridge in the world. It has even been rumored that General Tommy Franks carried a Kimber .45 as his personal sidearm during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

In 2001, the elite Los Angeles Police Department SWAT team shocked the law enforcement community when it adopted the Kimber .45 automatic as its official sidearm. LAPD SWAT is considered one of the most important counterterrorist units in the U.S. law enforcement community, having been primarily responsible for security at the 1984 Olympics. Today, the unit is the first line of defense against terrorists in one of America's largest metropolitan areas.

LAPD SWAT was not actually the first law enforcement agency to adopt the Kimber .45. In 1999, the Tacoma, Washington police department raised some eye brows when it authorized its officers to carry the Kimber .45 in the line of duty. In the selection process, a variety of pistols were tested and put through the paces. The Tacoma PD was shocked at the reliability demonstrated by the Kimber. In fact, they were not able to produce a single malfunction in the test pistols provided by Kimber and they began to "smell a rat." They suspected that Kimber had supplied them with "ringers" — specially assembled examples — to test, rather than regular production pistols, such as their officers would carry in the event that the pistol was adopted.

So, the Tacoma police went out to local firearms dealers and purchased pistols "off the shelf" for further testing. To their astonishment, these Kimber .45s performed just as well as the pistols originally supplied by the company which were erroneously suspected to be "ringers."

Today, in addition to LAPD, Tacoma PD and USSOCOM, first responders across America use the Kimber .45, as evidenced by the fact that SWAT teams in the following cities issue the pistol to their members:


Seminole TX PD
Petersburg AK PD
Raton NM PD
Ault CO PD
Kerrville TX PD
Lake County MT Sheriff
Loveland CO PD
Mentor OH PD
Umatilla WA PD
Whitman City Sheriff
Grey GA PD
Bremfield OH PD

Traditional design meets space age manufacturing

How did Kimber, a company that had never manufactured a pistol before the 1990s, bring about the renaissance of the 1911 .45? By marrying John Browning’s proven century-old, robust and reliable design with a high-tech, state of the art manufacturing process.

Because Kimber was relatively new to the manufacture of the 1911 model, they were literally able to start from scratch with a brand new factory—called by some the most modern, fully computerized gun factory in America.

The first priority was CAD/CAM (Computer Assisted Design/Computer Assisted Manufacturing). Before making a single pistol, Kimber invested $1 million in a CAD/CAM system that had never been employed in the manufacture of a 1911 .45 automatic before. By using CAD/CAM, the Kimber’s tolerances are up to 3 times as tight as traditionally manufactured .45s.

While the dimensions of every part is important, the two most critical dimensions and fits on a 1911 are:
-Slide-to-frame
-Barrel-to-bushing-to-slide

These fits largely determine the reliability and accuracy of the pistol. The better the fit and the tighter the dimensions, the better the reliability and accuracy. It is in these two aspects that the modern manufacturing process at Kimber produces superior results. The result is a century-old design with accuracy and dependability equal or better to even the most recent pistol designs.

In the interests of full disclosure, I think it is only proper to inform the reader that I am not without bias when it comes to .45 automatics. I have been a .45 owner/enthusiast since my military days when my father gave me my first .45—a Colt Government Model-- as a gift for my 21st birthday. Over the past 20 years, I have owned and shot competitively (but not very!) .45s from Colt and Springfield Armory.

However, upon my introduction to Kimber in 2001, I am a devoted Kimber shooter exclusively. I own three Kimber .45s and their performance straight out of the box is superior to other .45s that I own that have been heavily customized at the cost of hundreds of dollars in aftermarket parts and pistolsmithing. Almost immediately the Kimber made me a better shooter.

I attribute this to the consistency of their manufacturing process and the high quality of each of the components. I imagine these are the same attributes that made our military and law enforcement heroes select the Kimber .45 as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Holton is the Editor of www.WorldTechTribune.com and serves on the World Tribune Board of Advisers. He has been writing about national security, defense issues and economics for more than a dozen years. He is a full-time direct response marketing consultant and lives in New Orleans with his wife and five children. He can be reached at [email protected].

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/flash_3.html

just a little 9mm vs .45 and Kimber vs Anti-Kimber (Glock :neener: ) to start off your weekend.....
 
.45 ACP is a truly reliable round. Ask any Filipino about the creation of the .45 and you'll get a story that they are very proud to tell! Kimber is truly a beautiful piece of craftsmanship. I wish I could afford to own three of them! Oh well, there is always nest year!
 
May I suggest you move this thread to the Autoloaders forum? It will certainly generate more sparks there. After all, Kimber has those MIM parts, plastic parts, and everyone knows they have constant problems. :neener:
 
While I have shot and throughly enjoyed many Kimber .45s, I do have to say that 9mm's only fault lies in the foolish use of hardball ammo.

When good expanding hollowpoints are used with both, and +P+ pressures in 9mm (very safe and factory approved in a pistol such as the Glock or Beretta.) the energy exeeds that of .45ACP, and expansion matches it.

.45ACP also has one other advantage, it is a subsonic round withought having to be down-loaded. Ideal for suppressed work.

While the 1911 is surely an impressive design, calling it the most reliable pistol in the world is a stretch.
 
While the dimensions of every part is important, the two most critical dimensions and fits on a 1911 are:
-Slide-to-frame
-Barrel-to-bushing-to-slide

Slide-to-frame fit is of negligible importance, except to the marketing department. But it is neato.
 
When good expanding hollowpoints are used with both, and +P+ pressures in 9mm (very safe and factory approved in a pistol such as the Glock or Beretta.) the energy exeeds that of .45ACP, and expansion matches it.

:scrutiny: uuhhh, you're gonna have to 'splain that one very slowly to an old fart like me...

But I'm listening...:eek:
 
I owned a Kimber and it was the most unreliable gun I ever bought. After sending it to their custom shop (at my expense) it became reliable.

Then the finish went bad, bluing was wearing off on all machined edges and it started rusting. Keep in mind - this was a gun that I never owned a holster for nor did I use for any length of time in a holster.

They worked with me to get it fixed, but my first 1911 experience didnt work well. Everyone at the range raved about Kimber until I showed them mine.

Would I buy another - Probably. I'm just crazy like that.

As for 9mm being anemic, perhaps we should take a european stance to the 9x19 - standard loading making a power factor of 170.
 
Although the shooting community is very conservative, the plain facts are that neither the single action auto nor the .45 ACP cartridge is ever going to come back in any great numbers. There'll be a few scattered here anmd there, but no great numbers of them.

Sure, there'll always be old timers who resist progress, but they'll never be a majority.
 
uuhhh, you're gonna have to 'splain that one very slowly to an old fart like me...

Well i THINK artherd was pointing out that fully expanded 9mm and 45acp HPs are VERY close to the same size. I can barely tell the difference with the naked eye. And since 9mm tends to move faster.... well there ya go.

MY PERSONAL OPINION is that both cartridges (like virtually all handgun cartridges) are woefully underpowered to QUICKLY and RELIABLY stop a bad guy everytime. Thats why we have rifles. In other words it doesnt really matter which one you choose.

I AM a big fan of the JMB single action design though. It feels very comfortable to shoot and points quite nicely for me.
 
One more voice that believes a tight slide-to-frame fit does not significantly improve accuracy, and may actually impair reliability. At least with traditional Colt designs.
 
What he neglects to mention is also that LAPD SWAT has been using 1911s since it's inception, just not all of one brand (they picked them up from confiscations, etc). And the Kimber has been partially adopted for some SF units (The Marine SOCOM guys) I believe until the Marine armorers can get enough of their custom ones built.
 
Before getting a job in a gun store I would hear stories about Kimbers that were having problems with the passive firing pin safety and other reliability problems and I would wonder what was causing those problems. Once I started working in a gun shop I found that about 99% of the problems Kimbers were having were caused by the very people that bought them!

I had a customer bring in a CDP that wouldn't fire. I looked it over with the customer while trying to diagnose the cause of the problem. It turns out that the Schwartz safety had failed because the customer had depressed the grip safety while reassembling the pistol and had sheared off part of the pin-the part that pushes the passive firing pin plunger up in the slide-with the rear of the slide. When the customer couldn't get the slide to go past the pin he decided that reading the instructions wasn't what he needed to do because he had a dead-blow mallet handy. It only took one well aimed blow to get the slide to go all the way onto the frame so that he could get the pistol back together. He brought it in because the gun had "failed" at the range. I think he'll read the manual several times while he waits for his gun to come back.
 
>>>Although the shooting community is very conservative, the plain facts are that neither the single action auto nor the .45 ACP cartridge is ever going to come back in any great numbers. There'll be a few scattered here anmd there, but no great numbers of them.

Sure, there'll always be old timers who resist progress, but they'll never be a majority.<<<<


?

Just because the miliatary and LE, as a group, choose other platforms and calibers than the 1911 and 45ACP doesn't mean they are right or wrong or that those of us that like 1911 have made a poor decision.

NFI but I bet a majority of human beings on this plant don't use toilet paper....

S-
 
Chris Holton apparently isn't a 1911 person or is who who does not understand how 1911s work. Tighter tolerances on slide to frame fit do not improve accuracy and do not improve reliability.

He does not understand that a gun of particular make, such as Kimber, will not make him a better shooter. I Kimber might be slightly more accurate than some 1911s, but a slightly more accurate gun does not mean that the shooters poorer shooting traits will be overcome. It won't help with flinch, sight picture, trigger control, etc.

So while the boast was made that Kimbers have been adopted by the military, just what branch(es) of what military organizations is he talking about? That little fact seem to be missing.

Maybe I am ignorant on this and someone can set me straight. Just how is it that LAPD SWAT is one of the most important counterterrorist units in the U.S. law enforcement community? So they helped with the 1984 Olympics. Big deal. They certainly did not have Kimbers then. And while they help protect greater LA against terrorist activities should such activities, just what terrorist activities have they actually protected against? They do a tremendous amount of non-terroristic law enforcement. Sort of by default, every SWAT team is a first line of defense against terroristic activities in their prospective jurisdictions.

The plug for Tommy Franks carrying a Kimber is baseless. As noted, it is just a rumor and not substantiated. These folks say he carried an M1911, but not what brand.

All in all, the little article reads something like a review in a gun rag with the bias of the reviewed protuct's company having paid for large amounts of advertising.

, having been primarily responsible for security at the 1984 Olympics. Today, the unit is the first line of defense against terrorists in one of America's largest metropolitan areas.
 
While I have shot and throughly enjoyed many Kimber .45s, I do have to say that 9mm's only fault lies in the foolish use of hardball ammo.

There's your problem. The military is more or less prohibited under internation law (specifically the Hague Convention) from using non-FMJ ammunition. I say more or less because the wording does not precisely ban hollowpoints:

To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering; Hague IV Chapter 1 Art. 23

But hollowpoints have been considered to cause unnecessary suffering, so they fall under this. Furthermore, the US didn't sign that treaty, I believe, but has agreed to follow it.

Here is an interesting memorandum by the US Army on the subject. It's about half way down the page...
 
Editied by me as indicated....

How did Kimber, a company that had never manufactured a pistol before the 1990s, bring about the renaissance of the 1911 .45? By marrying John Browning’s proven century-old, robust and reliable design with a high-tech, state of the art manufacturing process, and by cutting corners using cheap, MIM parts. As a result, by cheapening the quality of their firearms yet selling them at a premium to civilians, they are able to undercut the competition and low ball govermment contracts

:D :D

WildtakeitfromtherefellasAlaska
 
I bought and sold 2 separate Kimbers and wasn't that inpressed. They wre alright but for the money plastic mainspring housings and iffy finishes and reliability I sold them both for a Wilson Combat and have never regretted it.
Colt 1911 style .45's and AR-15's... quite a combination my 2 favorites anyway
 
How did Kimber, a company that had never manufactured a pistol before the 1990s, bring about the renaissance of the 1911 .45? By marrying John Browning’s proven century-old, robust and reliable design with a high-tech, state of the art manufacturing process, and by cutting corners using cheap, MIM parts. As a result, by cheapening the quality of their firearms yet selling them at a premium to civilians, they are able to undercut the competition and low ball govermment contracts

I wish i could dissagree cause i used to like Kimber before i shot a couple and found them to be nothing special.
 
uuhhh, you're gonna have to 'splain that one very slowly to an old fart like me...

But I'm listening...

No problem. (and thanks for keeping an open mind!) It's no secret that *standard* old 9mm has less energy than .45ACP.

But newer +P+ loadings of 9mm actually have MORE energy.

Now I'll prove it using Winchester Ranger ammunition in both calibres:

RA9TA: 441lb/ft from a 4" bbl.
RA45T: 400lb/ft from a 5"bbl.

(my source: http://www.precisiondelta.com/winchester/rangertseries.html )

Note that the RA9TA loading of a 127gr at 1250fps from a 4" bbl is less than 100fps from a .357magnum velocity. Not something to sneeze at!



I also said that expanded 9mm and .45ACP hollowpoints basically look the same (both go to around .55-.60" diameter.) So the same surface area slug with more energy wins.


I would go furthur to say that the entireity of the above applies ONLY to hollowpoint rounds. Stupid Hauge convention. (that we didn't sign, that really only bans ammo that causes 'unnessicary suffering'. Donsen't FMJ ammo make it less likely for a kill to be made? So I'd say FMJ actually causes more suffering.)

When your only option is FMJ, I belive .45ACP would make a (marginally) better wounding than 9mm hardball. Both however, frankly suck.



PS: I too regard all pistol rounds as insufficent stopers, especially compared with rifles. I'd say .45ACP and 9mm+P+ are 'equally' insufficent though ;)
 
It's ironic that our troops do wan the .45 again, a century after going from the .38 to the .45 to kill muslim fanatics in another war....

Our soldiers never wanted the 9mm, it was a done deal at high political/NATO levels. Another deciding factor was the increasing numbers of women in the military. Too many of our "crack troops" didn't have the hand and finger strength to jack a .45's slide, and couldn't handle the recoil. The lady troops couldn't stand guard duty, if they couldn't qualify on the .45, so the .45 went away.

As far as 9mm not being a decent man stopper, this is certainly true if you must shoot only military ball FMJ rounds. In this case, the military situation, you REALLY want the .45! Among FMJ military-legal pistol rounds, the .45 is head and shoulders supreme!!!!
 
The first priority was CAD/CAM (Computer Assisted Design/Computer Assisted Manufacturing). Before making a single pistol, Kimber invested $1 million in a CAD/CAM system that had never been employed in the manufacture of a 1911 .45 automatic before. By using CAD/CAM, the Kimber’s tolerances are up to 3 times as tight as traditionally manufactured .45s.
Boy did they get hosed, then. Smith & Wesson and other firearm manufacturers use SolidWorks, which is $4,000 per user, and some CAM software that's about $12-15,000 per user.

This reads like a Kimber press release shilled out to an "Editor?"
 
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