artherd, not trying to hijack the thread or start an argument - just give some facts....the 230 grain fmj .45 in standard pressure is not overpenetrative on humans, that is a myth. (The physics of bigger, heavier and slower vs smaller, lighter and faster) 9mm fmj on the other hand is more able to overpenetrate in the 115 and 124 grain loadings (I can think of lots of situations on a battlefield where penetration would be a good thing). I am talking about solid upper torso hits, not hits just barley catching skin. 147 grain 9mm I am not sure of, it has more weight and is subsonic in it's speed..?? (Any physicians or people with personal experience on board who has saw upper torso hits with it please chime in.....as well as anyone with any knowledge of the 180 grain fmj 40s)
I once thought the way you do, until I did some checking and gained some experience and then I found out that the truth was not as I had thought. Check with some physicians, soldiers, and law officers who have saw the effects or used the .45 230 fmj loading and you'll find out what I did....that 'ol big bullet ain't too bad in it's original form...sure, an expanded Ranger T may (or may not - depends on the circumstances) work better, but the heavy slug is alright on it's on. Skin, tissue, and muscles stretch and return to shape, leaving the damage done to be what was actually penetrated, cut or crushed - I'm told it's hard to tell a difference in the majority of defensive handgun calibers in a lot of bullet paths - haven't saw but one autopsy personally, where a handgun was used - a .357 magnum - it exited, don't know what kind of bullet it was, but the path was just a hole through the vital areas (heart included). I have saw smaller caliber (.22 and .25) wounds (some fatal) to the head and chest and leg that didn't exit.
There are exceptions to everything, that definetly includes handgun ammunition performance. More than anything, it's putting it where it will do it's job - that includes having a rd that is able to get where it needs to be to do that job - not just it's placement on the surface - be that chest or head or pelvis.
Overpenetration with good guys on the far side is bad, but then again, should you be firing in that situation?? Not if you can help it, of course...can you help it, maybe not....and if not, then you had dang well better know you can hit your target....a situation that we teach our people to kneel down before firing (if possible) so that the rds are headed at an upward angle........no one wants to be in that kind of mess. Whats between your ears is the weapon that needs to be utilized the most.
Ken
*edited to say 'upper' torso hits - my fingers outrun my brain again, sigh.
